<div dir="ltr"><div>Two more non-Romance Afroasiatic languages:</div><div> </div><div><div> </div><div>In Coptic, adjectives aren't generally a distinct word class. What one could call an adjectival construction involves the head noun followed by an modifier marker (n-), then another noun. So:</div>
<div><br></div><div>ou-rOme n-noute 'a man of-god, a divine man'</div><div>ou-sEfe n-angelos 'a sword of-angel, an angelic sword'</div><div><br></div><div>However, there's a construction in which the order is reversed. In general it's got an affective/rhetorical flavour, and has been compared to constructions like the English 'a monster of a child' construction.</div>
<div> </div><div>p-atna m-matoi 'the-merciless of-soldier' 'the merciless soldier'</div><div> </div><div>With some lexemes, like those denoting 'big' and 'small' it is probably the unmarked construction.</div>
<div> </div><div>ou-noc m-mEESe 'a large of-crowd,' 'a large crowd'</div><div>nei-koui n-zOon 'these small of-creature' 'these small creatures'<br></div><div>Interestingly, two lexemes meaning 'small' are the only ones that can directly follow the head noun, without n-. So I suppose one could consider them 'real' adjectives.' This is pretty much what one would expect, cross-linguistically (see Aikhenvald & Dixon 2004 on adjectives).</div>
<div> </div><div>You can find information on this in Bentley Layton's Coptic Grammar, but it was first discussed by Ariel Shisha-Halevy in his book 'Coptic Grammatical Categories' (1986).</div><div> </div><div>
In Modern Hebrew, adjectives follow nouns, but in some cases, you have nominals before nouns with an attributive reading, so</div><div><br></div><div>misiba tova 'party good' > 'a good party'</div><div>
xara misiba 'shit party' > 'a shitty party'</div><div> </div><div>I don't know who's written about this.<br></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div>Eitan</div></div><div><br><br> </div><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:24 AM, Claire Bowern <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:clairebowern@gmail.com" target="_blank">clairebowern@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">To get us out of Romance, Bardi (Nyulnyulan, Australian) has the same semantic distribution of Adj N vs N Adj that Spanish does. cf moorrooloo aarli 'small fish' vs aarli moorrooloo 'fish, which are small'.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>
Claire</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Daniel Hieber <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dwhieb@gmail.com" target="_blank">dwhieb@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">Being a feature of Romance languages, it's of course no surprise that Latin exhibits this as well. Typically in Latin the adjective follows the noun, except in cases where the adjective indicates quantity or size (and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_grammar#Word_order" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a> adds beauty, goodness, or truth). Thus:<div>
<br></div><div>magna urbs</div><div>large city</div><div><br></div><div>cīvēs laetī</div><div>citizens happy</div><div><br></div><div>In Spanish this is more semantically-conditioned than lexical. Restrictive / classificational uses tend to come after the noun, while nonrestritive / qualificational senses come before:</div>
<div><br></div><div>amigo viejo 'friend who is old'</div><div>viejo amigo 'old/dear/longtime friend'</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Hartmut Haberland <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hartmut@ruc.dk" target="_blank">hartmut@ruc.dk</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">There are also a number of non-loans which can be used such in German, especially in expressions for food:<br>
<br>
Forelle blau (slightly boiled with vinegar or white wine added to the water, same as French truite au bleu; also Karpfen blau)<br>
Aal satt (as much eel as you can eat)<br>
<br>
I suspect many of them are fixed collocations rather than productive constructions.<br>
<br>
Less common in Danish:<br>
<br>
latte to go: a caffe latte to be consumed outside the premises<br>
<br>
Hartmut Haberland<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
Fra: Discussion List for ALT [<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>] på vegne af Jan Wohlgemuth [<a href="mailto:jan@LINGUIST.DE" target="_blank">jan@LINGUIST.DE</a>]<br>
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 18:40<br>
Til: <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
Emne: Re: Adjective-Noun order<br>
<div><div><br>
Dear Jennifer,<br>
in German, the order changed, or rather became less flexible in Old High<br>
German. Modern German only has a few adjectives that can "violate" the<br>
rule of Adj-N and follow the noun while being uninflected:<br>
<br>
purer Spaß : Spaß pur<br>
<a href="http://pure.M.Nom.Sg" target="_blank">pure.M.Nom.Sg</a>. fun : fun pure<br>
<br>
It only works with a handful of adjectives; many -if not most- of them<br>
are loanwords e.g. (pur, light, live, online)<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Jan<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 19.02.2013 17:55, schrieb Jennifer Culbertson:<br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> I'm interested in examples of languages which have lexically-determined<br>
> exceptions to a general adjective placement rule. A very well-documented<br>
> example is French, in which adjectives are generally post-nominal but a<br>
> (small) lexically-determined set can be pre-nominal. Do you know of other<br>
> examples?<br>
><br>
> I'm also interested in whether anyone knows of any typological work which<br>
> might suggest whether this kind of variation is more common for adjectives<br>
> compared to numerals (or vice versa). I know of cases in which the<br>
> placement of the numerals one and/or two differ from other numerals, but I<br>
> don't have a sense for how common that is.<br>
><br>
> Thanks in advance for your help!<br>
><br>
> Jennifer Culbertson<br>
> Assistant Professor<br>
> Linguistics Program<br>
> George Mason University<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Jan Wohlgemuth, M.A.<br>
Institut für Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft, Universität Muenster<br>
==================================================================<br>
* * * * * * * Studentische Tagung Sprachwissenschaft * * * * * * *<br>
* * * * * * * * * <a href="http://www.stuts.de" target="_blank">www.stuts.de</a> / <a href="http://www.stuts.org" target="_blank">www.stuts.org</a> * * * * * * * * * *<br>
* * * * * * * * <a href="http://www.linguisten.de" target="_blank">www.linguisten.de</a> / <a href="http://www.linglink.de" target="_blank">www.linglink.de</a> * * * * * * *<br>
* * * * * * * * * * * * * <a href="http://www.linguist.de" target="_blank">www.linguist.de</a> * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>
==================================================================<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br><div><br></div>Omnis habet sua dona dies.<br> ~ Martial
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Eitan Grossman<div>Lecturer, Department of Linguistics/School of Language Sciences<br></div><div>Hebrew University of Jerusalem</div><div>Tel: +972 2 588 1885</div>
<div>Fax: +972 2 588 0265</div></div>
</div>