<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>May I suggest paying attention to the following 4 relevant phenomena.</span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><span>1) A/N is overwhelmingly more compact prosodically than N//A is, as indicated by the following:</span></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="margin-left:21.0pt;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">(1)<span style=""> </span>a.
<span style=""> </span>a hard-to-pronounce Chinese
sound<span style=""> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.25in;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>b.
<span style=""> </span>a Chinese sound hard to
pronounce</span></div>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="margin-left:21.0pt;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">(2)<span style=""> </span>a.
<span style=""> </span>the above-average salary<span style=""> </span></span></div><span class="yiv1730331241tab"> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>b.
<span style=""> </span>the salary above average</span>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="margin-left:21.0pt;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">(3)<span style=""> </span>a.
<span style=""> </span>a five-year old boy<span style=""> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.25in;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>b.
<span style=""> </span>a boy five year<b style="">s</b> old. <br></span></div><div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="text-indent:0.25in;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:12px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br></div></div><div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="text-indent:0.25in;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:12px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.0pt;"><span style="font-family:SimSun;"><span style=""> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">(4)<span style=""> </span>a.<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>the
clearly dominant candidates</span></div>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.0pt;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span>b.<span style=""> </span>*the dominant clearly dominants </span></div>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.0pt;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span>c.<span style=""> </span>the candidates clearly dominant</span></div>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.0pt;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span>d.<span style=""> </span>?the candidates dominant clearly</span></div><div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="line-height:16pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:12px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><br></span></div>
</div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">
</div><div>2) The A in N//A is overwhelmingly richer in morphology than that in A/N is, as indicated by:</div><div><span style="font-size:9.0pt;" lang="ES"> (5)<span style=""> </span>a. <span style=""> </span>el<span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>primer
buen capitil<b>o</b></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span></span>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.25in;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>b. <span style=""> </span>el
capitil<b>o</b> primer<b>o</b> buen<b>o</b></span></div>
<div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="text-indent:0.25in;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:12px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>c. <span style=""> </span>el
capitilo buen<b>o</b> primer<b>o</b></span></div><div class="yiv1730331241MsoNormal" style="text-indent:0.25in;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:12px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"><b><br></b></span></div>
</div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">3) The word order within A of N//A is overwhelmingly freer than that in A/N is, as indicated the above (4) and <br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">(5).</div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">4) The A in N//A is overwhelmingly freer to expand than that in A/N is, as indicated by:</div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times,
serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"> (6) a. a higher (*than the clouds) mountain</div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"> b. a mountain higher than the clouds <br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">These phenomena seem to hint that A in N//A is more like a predicate of the N, rather than just being a modifier. Or in other words, A in N//A carries more features of predication than that in A/N.</div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br></div><span style="font-size:9.0pt;" lang="ES"></span><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"> </div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">Bingfu Lu</div><div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:16px;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">The Institute for Linguistic Typology</div>Nanchang University, China<div><span></span></div><br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size:
12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "Giorgio Francesco Arcodia -- ============================================================ Ljuba Veselinova, Associate Professor Dept of Linguistics, Stockholm University, S-10691 Stockholm, Sweden Phone: +46-8-16-2332 Fax: +46-8-15 5389 URL : http://www2.ling.su.se/staff/ljuba/ "We learn by going where we want to go." Julia Cameron ============================================================@yahoo.com" <Giorgio Francesco Arcodia -- ============================================================ Ljuba Veselinova, Associate Professor Dept of Linguistics, Stockholm
University, S-10691 Stockholm, Sweden Phone: +46-8-16-2332 Fax: +46-8-15 5389 URL : http://www2.ling.su.se/staff/ljuba/ "We learn by going where we want to go." Julia Cameron ============================================================@yahoo.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February 20, 2013 1:21 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: Adjective-Noun order<br> </font> </div> <br>
On (Standard Mandarin) Chinese:<br><br>Adjectives may appear after the noun (predicative function) or before the noun (modifying function). However, there is both a set of non-predicative adjectives, which thus may appear only before the noun, and a set of predicative-only adjectives, which thus may appear only after the noun. This is lexically determined.<br>If you want I can send you a paper on the topic.<br><br>Giorgio F. Arcodia<br><br>-- Dr. Giorgio Francesco Arcodia<br>Università degli Studi di Milano-Bicocca<br>Dipartimento di Scienze Umane per la Formazione<br>Edificio U6 - stanza 4101<br>Piazza dell'Ateneo Nuovo, 1<br>20126 Milano<br><br>Tel.: (+39) 02 6448 4946<br>Fax: (+39) 02 6448 4863<br>E-mail: <a ymailto="mailto:giorgio.arcodia@unimib.it" href="mailto:giorgio.arcodia@unimib.it">giorgio.arcodia@unimib.it</a><br><br><br>On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:11:21 -0500<br> Mike Klein <<a ymailto="mailto:kdogg36@GMAIL.COM"
href="mailto:kdogg36@GMAIL.COM">kdogg36@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:<br>> Jenny,<br>> <br>> Adjectives in Chinese always precede the noun, but there are two different<br>> patterns: A de N (more common) and A N. The article below discusses the<br>> syntactic and semantic differences. I don't know if lexical determination<br>> plays a role, but I wouldn't be surprised if the alternation in Mandarin<br>> had something in common with the word order alternation in Romance<br>> languages.<br>> <br>> Mike Klein<br>> <br>> Waltraud, Paul (2005). Adjectival modification in Mandarin Chinese and<br>> related issues. *Linguistics, 43*(4), pp. 757-793.<br>> <br>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Jennifer Culbertson <<a ymailto="mailto:jculber4@gmu.edu" href="mailto:jculber4@gmu.edu">jculber4@gmu.edu</a>>wrote:<br>> <br>>> Hi all,<br>>> <br>>> I'm interested in examples of languages which have
lexically-determined<br>>> exceptions to a general adjective placement rule. A very well-documented<br>>> example is French, in which adjectives are generally post-nominal but a<br>>> (small) lexically-determined set can be pre-nominal. Do you know of other<br>>> examples?<br>>> <br>>> I'm also interested in whether anyone knows of any typological work which<br>>> might suggest whether this kind of variation is more common for adjectives<br>>> compared to numerals (or vice versa). I know of cases in which the<br>>> placement of the numerals one and/or two differ from other numerals, but I<br>>> don't have a sense for how common that is.<br>>> <br>>> Thanks in advance for your help!<br>>> <br>>> Jennifer Culbertson<br>>> Assistant Professor<br>>> Linguistics Program<br>>> George Mason University<br><br><br> </div> </div> </blockquote></div>
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