<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><p>dear Misha and Timur,</p><p>I'm aware of some languages that use the
verb “see” with a conative (TRY) or verificational (VERIF) meaning even
when seeing is not involved.</p><p>One example is indeed Mandarin 看<em></em></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;display:inline"><em> </em></div><em>kàn</em>, cited by André Müller.<p></p>
<p></p><p>Another example is French. The infinitive <em>voir</em> (literally ‘see’) follows certain imperative verbs to add a meaning of tentativeness or conativity:</p><table class="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr><td style="width:39px">(1)</td><td style="width:64px"><em>écoute</em></td><td style="width:49px"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"><strong><em>voir</em></strong></span><strong><em></em></strong></td><td style="width:37px">
(si</td><td style="width:36px">tu</td><td style="width:74px">entends</td><td style="width:48px">sa</td><td style="width:53px">voix)</td><td style="width:52px"><br></td></tr><tr><td style="width:39px"><br></td><td style="width:64px">
listen</td><td style="width:49px">TRY</td><td style="width:37px">if</td><td style="width:36px">you</td><td style="width:74px">hear</td><td style="width:48px">her</td><td style="width:53px">voice</td><td style="width:52px">
<br></td></tr><tr><td style="width:39px"><br></td><td colspan="8" style="width:414px">‘(try to) listen if you can hear her voice.’</td></tr></tbody></table><p><br></p><table class="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr><td style="width:39px">(2)</td><td style="width:64px"><em>goûte</em></td><td style="width:49px"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)"><strong><em>voir</em></strong></span><em>!</em></td><td style="width:37px"><br></td>
<td style="width:36px"><br></td><td style="width:74px"><br></td><td style="width:48px"><br></td><td style="width:53px"><br></td><td style="width:52px"><br></td></tr><tr><td style="width:39px"><br></td><td style="width:64px">
taste</td><td style="width:49px">TRY</td><td style="width:37px"><br></td><td style="width:36px"><br></td><td style="width:74px"><br></td><td style="width:48px"><br></td><td style="width:53px"><br></td><td style="width:52px">
<br></td></tr><tr><td style="width:39px"><br></td><td colspan="8" style="width:414px">‘Try this (to check out the taste).’</td></tr></tbody></table><p><br></p><p>I also found the same semantic link in certain Oceanic languages of Vanuatu.<br>
The language <b>Lemerig</b> (2 speakers, northern Vanua Lava) uses the verb <em>’et</em> /ʔɛt/ ‘see’ as a conative postverbal particle <em>ten</em> (TRY):</p><table class="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr>
<td style="width:56px">(3)</td><td style="width:62px">Lēlqön̄</td><td style="width:56px">e,</td><td style="width:56px">në</td><td style="width:61px">m-ta</td><td style="width:56px"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><strong>’et</strong></span></td>
<td style="width:56px">wë</td><td style="width:56px">në</td><td style="width:93px">k‑mi'ir,</td><td style="width:56px">pa</td><td style="width:56px">niv.</td></tr><tr><td style="width:56px"><br></td><td style="width:62px">
in.night</td><td style="width:56px">DEF</td><td style="width:56px">1sg</td><td style="width:61px">PRF‑do</td><td style="width:56px">TRY</td><td style="width:56px">COMP</td><td style="width:56px">1sg</td><td style="width:93px">
1sg:Irr‑sleep</td><td style="width:56px">but</td><td style="width:56px">no</td></tr><tr><td style="width:56px"><br></td><td colspan="10" style="width:607px">’Last night I <strong>tried</strong> to find some sleep, but <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;display:inline">
no way</div>.'</td></tr></tbody></table><p>Lemerig <em>’et</em> /<strong>ʔɛt</strong>/ ‘see/TRY’ has cognate forms in neighbouring languages: Vera'a <em> ’ēn</em> /<strong>ʔɪn</strong>/ ‘see’ + Vurës <em>ten</em> /<strong>tɛn</strong>/ ‘TRY’. <br>
The three forms are regular reflexes of a single protoform *<em>teⁿde</em>.</p><p>In <b>Vurës</b>, the grammaticalisation process has </p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;display:inline">reached its end: the word <em>ten</em> has lost its original meaning ‘see’ and is only used synchronically as a postverbal particle with conative meaning (TRY):</div>
<p></p><table class="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="width:39px">(4)</td><td style="width:86px"><em>Ru</em></td><td style="width:54px"><em>tur</em></td><td style="width:42px"><em>kal</em></td>
<td style="width:44px"><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><strong><em>ten</em></strong></span><strong><em></em></strong></td><td style="width:58px"><em>na</em></td><td style="width:47px"><em>ēl</em></td><td style="width:49px">
<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><strong><em>ten</em></strong></span><em>!</em></td></tr><tr><td style="width:39px"><br></td><td style="width:86px"><font size="1">Imper:Dual</font></td><td style="width:54px"><font size="1">stand</font></td>
<td style="width:42px"><font size="1">up</font></td><td style="width:44px"><font size="1">TRY</font></td><td style="width:58px"><font size="1">1sg:Irr</font></td><td style="width:47px"><font size="1">see</font></td><td style="width:49px">
<font size="1">TRY</font></td></tr><tr><td style="width:39px"><br></td><td colspan="7" style="width:381px">[looking for a knife]<br> ‘<strong>Try</strong> standing up so I can [<strong>try</strong> to] have a look!’</td></tr>
</tbody></table><p></p><p>Yet the etymology of this <em>ten</em> is suggested by Lemerig</p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;display:inline"> – as well as other examples of the same semantic shift in other languages of the world.</div>
<p></p><p>all the best</p><p>Al</p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;display:inline">e</div>x.<p></p><p></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;display:inline">___</div>
<br><p></p><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span style="color:rgb(69,129,142)">Alex François<br>
<a href="http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/membres/francois.htm" target="_blank">LACITO-CNRS</a>, France<br> <a href="http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/people/personal/frana_ling.php" target="_blank">Australian National University</a>, Canberra<br>
<a href="http://alex.francois.free.fr" target="_blank">http://alex.francois.free.fr</a></span><br></font></span></span></span><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;display:inline">__________________________</div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/7/28 André Müller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:esperantist@gmail.com" target="_blank">esperantist@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Dear Michael & Timur,<br><br></div>Although not quite as high on the grammaticalization scale as the Archi and Agul examples, and with a slightly different meaning, a similar construction does exist in Mandarin Chinese. I don't have Heine & Kuteva 2004 at hand, so I'm not sure if they mention this.<br>
</div>The full verb 看 (kàn, lit. 'to see') is used – often in reduplicated form – after other verbs to convey the meaning 'to check out', so 吃看看 (chī kànkan, lit. 'eat see') means 'to try', referring to food, 听看看 (tīng kànkan, lit. 'listen see') means 'to check out by hearing'.<br>
</div><br>This construction isn't verificational in the strict sense, as it doesn't verify a previous statement. It can be used for "checking out" something unknown, but it can also be used for statements. 你吃看看，那个是不是太辣。 (Nǐ chī kànkan, nèi ge shì bú shì tài là; lit. you eat see~see, that CLF is not is too spicy) "Eat and try if this is too spicy."<br>
<br></div>Greetings,<br>- André Müller<br></div>(MPI EVA & Uni Bamberg)<br></div><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/7/28 Michael Daniel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com" target="_blank">misha.daniel@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear all,<br><br>in two Lezgic (East Caucasian) languages, Archi and Agul, there is a(n apparently rare) morphological category of verificative, or verificational. Its meaning is 'check whether P is true', where P is the lexical verb with its dependents. Here is an Archi example, with VERIF in the infinitive:<br>
<br>qalal-a jašul adam i-r-k:u-s<br>palace-IN inside person 4.be-INTRG-VERIF-INF<br>'(He went inside) in order to see whether there was anyone inside the palace. (4 is the agreement class)'<br>
<br>The following Agul example with VERIF in the past tense shows that VERIF introduces its own argument ('one who checks'):<br><br>gadaji ruš qušunaj-čuk’-une.<br>boy(ERG) girl go_away.PF.RES-VERIF-AOR<br>
'The boy checked, whether the girl has gone away.'<br><br>(See also this handout for further details: <a href="http://lingvarium.org/maisak/publ/Maisak_Leipzig2009.pdf" target="_blank">http://lingvarium.org/maisak/publ/Maisak_Leipzig2009.pdf</a>)<br>
<br>In both languages, the construction seems to result from grammaticalization of the verb 'see' (Archi ak:u- and its Agul cognate). The development seems to be historically and areally independent.<br><br>Although there is a number of grammaticalization paths in which this verbal meaning is involved (see Heine and Kuteva 2004: 269-270; and other developments, including evidential-like meanings), we are unaware of the verb 'see' grammaticalizing into categories similar to Archi/Agul verificative. We would be happy to learn of any comparable, in functional semantics terms, evidence from other languages.<br>
<br>Michael Daniel and Timur Maisak<br><br>(if convenient, copy both of us when replying to this message)<br>
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