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<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Verdana; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:2; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:2; word-spacing:0px; font-size:medium">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Verdana; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:2; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:2; word-spacing:0px; font-size:medium">Similar
to Nick's examples, in Chinese you find things translated directly from English or other languages, keeping the same order, such as 后现代化 hou-xiandai-hua [after modern change] or 后现代主义 hou-xiandai-zhuyi [after-modern-ism] 'postmodernism', where the bit meaning
'after' follows the English order, not the Chinese order, which should be as in 博士后 boshi-hou [doctor-after] 'post-doc'. Another one is the Chinese translation of the name of the newspaper South China Morning Post, which should be 华南早报 hua-nan-zao-bao [China-south-morning-newspaper],
but is in fact called 南华早报 nan-hua-zao-bao to match the English.
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<div>In the Bai language, a Tibeto-Burman language spoken in Yunnan in China, and one heavily influenced by Chinese, native auxiliary verbs follow the main verb, but if the auxiliary is borrowed from Chinese, it follows the Chinese word order and precedes the
verb.</div>
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<div>Randy</div>
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<div><span style="font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(34,34,34); background-color:white"><b>Prof. Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA</b> （</span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34); background-color:white; font-size:13px"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Song">罗仁地</font></span><span style="font-weight:normal; font-style:normal; font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(34,34,34); background-color:white">）|
Head, Division of Linguistics and Multilingual Studies | Nanyang Technological University</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:15px"><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
<span style="background-color:white">HSS-03-80, 14 Nanyang Drive, Singapore 637332</span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; color:rgb(34,34,34); font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px"><span style="background-color:white"> | </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:15px"><span style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="background-color:white">Tel:
(65) 6592-1825 GMT+8h | Fax: (65) 6795-6525 | <a href="http://sino-tibetan.net/rjlapolla/">http://sino-tibetan.net/rjlapolla/</a></span></span></span></div>
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<div>On Dec 14, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Nick Enfield wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>There are many examples in Thai when proper names of businesses and other<br>
organisations involve English words. Thai noun-modifier NPs are<br>
head-initial. In this example, the head ŒGas¹ is final, and note that the<br>
modifier ŒGulf of Thailand¹ is a head-modifier phrase with the normal<br>
head-initial order (tones omitted from example):<br>
<br>
Aaw thai kaet<br>
Gulf-Thai gas<br>
³Thai Gulf Gas² (gas company name)<br>
<br>
Here¹s another case - here the head Œbox vehicle¹ (I.e., van) is final,<br>
and note that its internal structure is the normal head-initial:<br>
<br>
Raachaa rot tuu<br>
R. vehicle-box<br>
³Raja Vans² (van company name)<br>
<br>
These constructions are very widespread, but I wouldn¹t say they are<br>
permeating the normal grammar.<br>
<br>
Nick<br>
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<br>
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<br>
On 14/12/13 07:09, "Eduardo Ribeiro" <<a href="mailto:kariri@GMAIL.COM">kariri@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">[apologies for cross-posting]<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear colleagues,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">I'm looking for examples of languages where certain (types of) phrases<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">present a different, borrowed word order when compared to a more<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">common, inherited type. Well-known examples are, in English, legal<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">terms in which the adjective follows the noun, preserving the original<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Norman French order: "attorney general", "court martial", etc.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">(Jespersen 1912:87-88).<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Are you aware of similar examples from other languages? And of cases<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">in which the borrowed order, originally limited to borrowed lexemes,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">ended up becoming the default usage?<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">I would appreciate any insights and bibliographic references on this<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">topic.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Obrigado,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Eduardo<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">-- <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Eduardo Rivail Ribeiro, lingüista<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://etnolinguistica.org/perfil:9">http://etnolinguistica.org/perfil:9</a><br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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