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<div data-externalstyle="false" dir="ltr" style="font-family: 'Calibri', 'Segoe UI', 'Meiryo', 'Microsoft YaHei UI', 'Microsoft JhengHei UI', 'Malgun Gothic', 'sans-serif';font-size:12pt;"><div><div>Richard, that’s a great point. Bickel et al. (2013) provide an excellent illustration of this issue, which they call ‘Siewierska’s Problem’ in memory of Anna and her seminal (2003) article on alignment in ditransitive constructions. There she points out that verbal person marking can show different patterns of alignment depending on whether one examines the trigger potential, morphological form, position, or conditioning factors of the person forms. Bickel et al. then show that discrepancies among these different criteria are in fact extremely common crosslinguistically. So the descriptive linguist needs to be very specific about the details of alignment, and make sure they're comparing like with like when comparing synchronic or diachronic data.</div><div><br></div><div>References</div><div>Bickel, Balthasar, Giorgio Iemmolo, Taras Zakharko & Alena Witzlack-Makarevich. 2013. Patterns of alignment in verb agreement. In Dik Bakker & Martin Haspelmath (eds.), <em>Languages Across Boundaries: Studies in Memory of Anna Siewierska.</em> 15-36. De Gruyter.</div><div><br></div><div>Siewierska, Anna. 2013. Person agreement and the determination of alignment. In Dunstan Brown, Greville G. Corbett & Carole Tiberius (eds.), <em>Agreement: A Typological Perspective</em>. 339-370. Wiley-Blackwell.<br></div><br></div><div data-signatureblock="true"><div><br></div><div>Daniel W. Hieber<br>Graduate Student in Linguistics<br>University of California, Santa Barbara<br>www.danielhieber.com<br><br>Omnis habet sua dona dies. ~ Martial</div><div><br></div></div><div style="padding-top: 5px; border-top-color: rgb(229, 229, 229); border-top-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid;"><div><font face=" 'Calibri', 'Segoe UI', 'Meiryo', 'Microsoft YaHei UI', 'Microsoft JhengHei UI', 'Malgun Gothic', 'sans-serif'" style='line-height: 15pt; letter-spacing: 0.02em; font-family: "Calibri", "Segoe UI", "Meiryo", "Microsoft YaHei UI", "Microsoft JhengHei UI", "Malgun Gothic", "sans-serif"; font-size: 12pt;'><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:rgriscom@UOREGON.EDU" target="_parent">Richard Griscom</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 9, 2014 8:16 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_parent">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a></font></div></div><div><br></div><div dir=""><div dir="ltr">This is a very interesting topic, but I would also add a word of caution against making assumptions regarding entire language systems conforming to a single alignment pattern. In my opinion, alignment is best viewed as construction-specific rather than language-specific in order to avoid inaccurate generalizations across the distribution. This, of course, doesn't preclude an analysis of a shift in the alignment patterns of one or more constructions in a given language. <div>
<br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Richard</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 12:32 AM, Florian Siegl <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:florian.siegl@gmx.net" target="_parent">florian.siegl@gmx.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ET">A
related
phenomena though only partly answering the initial posting is
attested on Kamtchatka.
Chukchi and Koryak show ergative alignment, but not Itelmen. The
Itelmen absolute case marks
S as well as A and P. Whether the Itelmen transitive verbal
agreement markers still
follow erg-abs alignment is not settled. Itelmen is not ergative
but apparently
not very nominative-accusative either. See the relevant sections
in Georg, Stefan & Volodin, Alexander P. 1999. Die
itelmenische Sprache - Grammatik und Texte. Tunguso-Sibirca 5.
Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ET"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ET">Best
wishes,<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ET"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ET">Florian
Siegl<u></u><u></u></span></p></font></span><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ET"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 9.01.2014 9:03, Don Killian wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Dear
Raheleh,
<br>
<br>
Depending on what you might be including by ergative, there's an
interesting article by Dimmendaal 2012
(<a href="http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/afrikanistik/mitarbeit/dimmendaal/Marked%20nominative%20in%20Eastern%20Sudanic%20130907%20DR%20comments.pdf" target="_parent">http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/afrikanistik/mitarbeit/dimmendaal/Marked%20nominative%20in%20Eastern%20Sudanic%20130907%20DR%20comments.pdf</a>)
in which he postulates the origins of Marked Nominative (depending
on who you ask, some consider this a subcategory of accusative
alignment) in Eastern Sudanic languages.
<br>
<br>
Gaahmg is particularly interesting as far as diachronic
developments go, as it also has both passive and antipassive
constructions and in fact can allow for both types of markers
simultaneously. If you're curious, email me and I can send you an
article by Tim Stirtz.
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
Don
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 01/08/2014 02:24 PM, Raheleh Izadi Far wrote:
<br>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Dear all,
<br>
<br>
Does anybody know about languages which have changed from
ergative
<br>
alignment to accusative alignment? or does anybody know about
the
<br>
mechanisms involved in such a change? what are the studies
concerning
<br>
this issue? and if there are any, are they accessible online?
<br>
<br>
Thank you very much in advance
<br>
<br>
kind regards,
<br>
Raheleh Izadifar
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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