<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Dear Martin (if I may),<br><br>Thank you for the references. These will prove to be most useful, especially Siewierska (It is nice to have some quantitative typological data). <br><br></div>Regards,<br>
</div>Jorge<br><div><div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Martin Haspelmath <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:haspelmath@eva.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>The classic reference on this is:<br>
<br>
<div style="line-height:1.35;padding-left:2em">
<div>Siewierska, Anna. 1998. On nominal and
verbal person marking. <i>Linguistic Typology</i> 2(1). 1–56.
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
She examines a world-wide sample of 157 languages and finds that
83% of the languages with person indexes on both nouns and verbs
have "some degree of phonemic correspondence between the two sets
of forms". Similarity of possessor indexes with A indexes and with
P indexes is about equally common.<br>
<br>
Two earlier important references are:<br>
<br>
<div style="line-height:1.35;padding-left:2em">
<div>Allen, W. Sidney. 1963. Transitivity and
possession. <i>Language</i> 40. 337–343.<br>
</div>
<span title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Transitivity%20and%20possession&rft.jtitle=Language&rft.volume=40&rft.aufirst=W.%20Sidney&rft.aulast=Allen&rft.au=W.%20Sidney%20Allen&rft.date=1963&rft.pages=337%E2%80%93343"></span></div>
<div style="line-height:1.35;padding-left:2em">
<div>Seiler, Hansjakob. 1983. Possessivity,
subject and object. <i>Studies in Language</i> 7. 89–117. <br>
</div>
<span title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Possessivity%2C%20subject%20and%20object&rft.jtitle=Studies%20in%20Language&rft.volume=7&rft.aufirst=Hansjakob&rft.aulast=Seiler&rft.au=Hansjakob%20Seiler&rft.date=1983&rft.pages=89-117&rft.spage=89&rft.epage=117"></span></div>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
Martin<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 19.03.14 18:25, Francoise Rose wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Jorge,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-GB">This is in fact quite frequent, due to the
similar origin of possessor indexes and argument indexes in
the same set of independent pronominals.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Dixon and Aikhenvald (1999) state about
Amazonian languages that </span><span lang="EN-GB">"the
bound pronominal forms marking a possessor within an NP are
typically the same as one of the bound pronominal paradigms
for marking core arguments of a clause."</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Possessor may be indexed
like P (Tupi-Guarani, Jê, Cf. Emerillon examples below), or
like A (Arawak, cf. Mojeño examples below).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Emérillon (Tupi-Guarani, French Guyana)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm"><a name="144dc2d03c75e4bf__Ref173123255"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"><span>(1)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><b><i>a-</i></b><i>nupã</i></a>
<span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="text-indent:35.4pt"><span lang="EN-US">1<span style="font-variant:small-caps">sg</span>.<b>I</b>-hit<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"> 'I hit him.'<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm;line-height:normal"><a name="144dc2d03c75e4bf__Ref173123266"><span lang="EN-US"><span>(2)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span lang="EN-US">zawa‰
<b>e-</b>su¿u</span></a><span style="font-style:normal" lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"SILDoulos IPA93"" lang="EN-US">
</span><span lang="EN-US">dog 1<span style="font-variant:small-caps">sg</span>.<b>II</b>-bite<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"> 'A dog bit me.'<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US"><span>(3)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><b><span lang="EN-US">e-</span></b><span lang="EN-US">men </span><span style="font-style:normal" lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"SILDoulos IPA93"" lang="EN-US">
</span><span lang="EN-US">1<span style="font-variant:small-caps">sg</span>.<b>II</b>-husband<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"> 'my husband'<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US">Mojeño Trinitario (Arawak, Bolivia)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm;line-height:normal"><a name="144dc2d03c75e4bf__Ref161204134"><span lang="EN-US"><span>(4)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><b><span lang="EN-US">n-</span></b><span lang="EN-US">echjiko-'e</span></a><span style="font-style:normal" lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"> 1<span style="font-variant:small-caps">sg</span>-talk.to-2<span style="font-variant:small-caps">pl</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"> 'I am talking to you.'<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:30.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US"><span>(5)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><span lang="EN-US">a-jañok<b>-nu</b>-yre</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">2<span style="font-variant:small-caps">pl</span>-watch.over<span style="font-variant:small-caps">-1sg-fut</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US">'You will watch over me.'<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0cm;text-indent:0cm;line-height:normal"><a name="144dc2d03c75e4bf__Ref182995874"><span lang="EN-US"><span>(6)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><b><span lang="EN-US">n-</span></b></a><span lang="EN-US">ousa</span><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:30.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"> 1<span style="font-variant:small-caps">sg</span>-village
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"> 'my village' <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US">The pattern you are interested in is found
throughout the Arawak family. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US">Françoise<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Discussion List for ALT
[<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>] <b>De la part de</b>
Jorge Emilio Rosés Labrada<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 19 mars 2014 17:07<br>
<b>À :</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
<b>Objet :</b> Marking of possessor and A and/or S with the
same set of affixes<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear everyone, <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mako [wpc] employs the same
set of affixes to mark the possessor on the
possessed noun (See example (1) below) and to
mark the A and the S on the verb (See examples
(2) and (3) below). I was wondering if you were
familiar with other languages that share this
feature (i.e., same set of markers for nominal
possession and verbal subject marking) and could
let me know. I am particularly interested in
Amazonian languages (especially languages from
the North West Amazon) but information on any
language will be most welcome. <br>
<br>
Thanks in advance for your help. Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jorge <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
1) <b><span>ʧɨ-bahale</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Doulos SIL"">
1sg-eye</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Doulos SIL"">
'my eye'<br>
<br>
2) ileka ʧɨ-kɨkɨd-obe</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Doulos SIL"">
cassava 1sg-dry-TAM</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Doulos SIL""> 'I
dry cassava'<br>
<br>
3) ʧɨ̃-hãmat-obe</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Doulos SIL"">
1sg-stand_up-TAM</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span> 'I stand up/get up'</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">-- <br>
Jorge Emilio Rosés Labrada<br>
PhD candidate & Vanier Canada Graduate
Scholar<br>
Department of French Studies (Linguistics)<br>
University of Western Ontario<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Jorge Emilio Rosés Labrada<br>PhD candidate & Vanier Canada Graduate Scholar<br>Department of French Studies (Linguistics)<br>University of Western Ontario<br>
</div></div></div></div></div></div>