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<div>Among the many treatments of the variety of uses of SE across Romance, I have a chapter on it (and other articles therein referenced) I my book, Why There Are No Clitics, available on-line via LingBuzz. </div>
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<div>Great clitic and leads to some interesting typological predictions. </div>
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<div>Dan<br>
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Sent from my iPhone</div>
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On Sep 15, 2014, at 15:21, "Donald Stilo" <<a href="mailto:stilo@EVA.MPG.DE">stilo@EVA.MPG.DE</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>Dear Enrique,</div>
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<div>Regarding <i>Juan se murió *<u>de un disparo</u></i>: But m<i>e muero <u>de hambre</u></i> is OK, isn't it? Why? Is it because it is not external?</div>
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<div>And to Sergey: in addition to Spanish <i>irse</i>, note French: <i>je <u>m</u>'en vais,</i> Italian
<i><u>me</u> ne vado</i> "I'm leaving, going away".</div>
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<div>Thanks, Don</div>
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<div>On Sep 15, 2014, at 5:21 PM, ENRIQUE BERNARDEZ SANCHIS wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Dear Sergey. No mystery here. The reflexive marker came to be used with a variety of senses, all of them impliying the action is seen as restricted to the participant; it may be reflexive (afeitarse: to shave (oneself)) to pure middle voice:
"caerse" "to fall down" implies that no external entity or agent is responsible for the fall; to inceptive "irse" which usually marks the beginning of the process of going. Another use of the -se form (a pronoun in fact) is a kind of emphasis on the absolute
limitation of the action/process to the participant: rather like "caerse" but I would see in a more radical way: morirse "to die" is different from simple morir (also to die). The first (-se form) just tells us that the person died, with the specific exclusion
of any external participant, whereas in morir (or in caer) the external participant, more or less agentive, is not excluded. You cannot say "Juan se murió de un disparo" (Juan died from a shot / because of a shot...), whereas Juan murió de un disparo is perfectly
common.
<div>Any history of the Spanish Language (there are many, in Spanish, German, French, also in Russian, English...) you will find the historical process leading from the reflexive to this array of "intransitivised" constructions.</div>
<div>Enrique</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-15 15:39 GMT+02:00 Sergey Lyosov <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:sergelyosov@inbox.ru" target="_blank">sergelyosov@inbox.ru</a>></span>:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear typologists,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">what do you think –se is doing on the Spanish irse ‘to go away, to leave’? How come a reflexive marker on a detransitive verb of motion?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Sergey </p>
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-- <br>
<div>Enrique Bernárdez</div>
Catedrático de Lingüística General
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<div>Departamento de Filología Románica, Filología Eslava y Lingüística General</div>
<div>Facultad de Filología</div>
<div>Universidad Complutense de Madrid</div>
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