<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Dear Michael, </div><div><br></div><div>As I tried to explain in a preceding message, this interaction between a V of fear and a NEG is still clear for grammarians but no longer for French speakers - they usually drop the NEG:</div><div><br></div><div>'Je crains qu'il vienne',</div><div><br></div><div>which may also have sth to do with the tendency of modern French to drop the first part of the originally double NEG, except when emphasizing ('il viendra pas?' - 'Non, il NE VIENDRA PAS.').</div><div><br></div><div>M.M.Jocelyne Fernandez-Vest</div><div><br>Envoyé de mon iPhone</div><div> <br>Le 19 mars 2015 à 09:39, Michael Daniel <<a href="mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com">misha.daniel@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Dear all,<div><br></div><div>please let me interven not as the author of the original query (who is temporarily offline) but as a subscriber to the list.</div><div><br></div><div>My feeling is that the original query might have been unclear or even not fully precise for French. Consider:</div><div><br></div><div>Je crains qu'il ne pleuve. </div><div><br></div><div>It means 'I fear lest it rains', not 'I fear lest it doesn't rain'</div><div><br></div><div>Obviously, here the speaker is afraid that P may happen, not that not(P) may happen. There is a clear interaction between the verbs of fear (or doubt) with negation. I think this is what Nina meant, and what she was interested in; and it may be that adding "pas" was a mistake (or some peripheral uses I am unaware of). </div><div><br></div><div>Similarly, in Russian:</div><div><br></div><div>"Ja bojusj, chto on ne pridet" </div><div><br></div><div>means 'I doubt that he comes', at least as a primary meaning - I can hardly imaging it meaning "He may come, and this prospect makes me afraid". The meaning 'that I do not like this to happen', whether his coming or not coming, is, to my ear, at least very peripheral.</div><div><br></div><div>"Ja bojusj chto on pridet", to my ear, means rather "I think he <b>may</b> come (and this is a prospect I do not like)"</div><div><br></div><div>Michael</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-03-19 10:21 GMT+02:00 Hannu Tommola <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Hannu.Tommola@uta.fi" target="_blank">Hannu.Tommola@uta.fi</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px">
<p>As Hartmut, I feel a clarification of the original query is needed here. I know that my competence in French is poor, but isn't it that there is a difference between the following utterances:<br>
<br>
French:<br>
<br>
Je crains qu'il ne vienne<br>
'I'm afraid he'll come'<br>
<br>
and<br>
<br>
Je crains qu'il ne vienne PAS.<br>
'I'm afraid he'll NOT come'<br>
<br>
Similarly in Russian:<br>
<br>
Ja bojus', chto on pridët<br>
'I'm afraid he'll come'<br>
<br>
and<br>
<br>
Ja bojus', chto on NE pridët<br>
'I'm afraid he'll NOT come'<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
Hannu<span class=""><br>
<br>
Quoting Hartmut Haberland <<a href="mailto:hartmut@ruc.dk" target="_blank">hartmut@ruc.dk</a>>:<br>
> I need a clarification here. The Japanese sentence can be paraphrased<br>
> as: Something bad may have happened. I am afraid of that. But do the<br>
> Hindi and French sentences mean: He may come. I am afraid of that. Or:<br>
> He may not come. I am afraid of that. ?<br>
> It could just be a question whether the complementizer means that or if<br>
> (like Japanese ka); the latter would require a negation that disappears<br>
> when the complementizer is rendered by a that-like conjunction in a<br>
> different language. <br>
> Hartmut<br>
><br>
> Sendt fra min iPhone<br>
><br>
> Den 19/03/2015 kl. 08.17 skrev "Anvita Abbi" <<a href="mailto:anvitaabbi@gmail.com" target="_blank">anvitaabbi@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
> <br>
>> Dear All,<br>
>> Hindi is one language with such structures. One example is given here.<br></span>
>> /mujhe Dar hai ki vo aa na <br>
>> jaye/<span class=""><br>
>> 1sg.Dat fear AUX COMP 3sg come NEG come<br>
>> Literal: 'I am afraid that he does not come'<br>
>> <br>
>> Anvita<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Prof. Anvita Abbi<br>
>><br>
>> Director: Centre for Oral and Tribal Literature<br>
>><br>
>> Sahitya Akademi<br>
>><br>
>> Rabindra Bhavan<br>
>><br>
>> 35, Ferozeshah Road<br>
>><br>
>> New Delhi 110 001<br></span>
>> <a href="http://www.andamanese.net" target="_blank">www.andamanese.net</a>[1]<span class=""><br>
>> President: Linguistic Society of India<br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Michael Daniel<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:misha.daniel@gmail.com" target="_blank">misha.daniel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> Dear all,<br>
>>><br>
>>> below is a letter I post on behalf of Nina Dobrushina. If you<br>
>>> have any references or ideas that you could share, please send them to<br>
>>> her: <a href="mailto:nina.dobrushina@gmail.com" target="_blank">nina.dobrushina@gmail.com</a> (also in the copy above)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Michael Daniel<br>
>>><br>
>>> Dear all,<br>
>>><br>
>>> could you give me hints on empirical evidence and literature<br></span>
>>> about languages where the predicates of fear (?fear?, ?to be afraid?,<br>
>>> ?to worry? and the like) (tend to) have negation in the complement<span class=""><br>
>>> clause? I am aware of Russian, French (and other Romance languages),<br>
>>> Japanese, and some Turkic languages like Kumyk. Two examples are<br>
>>> provided below.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> French:<br>
>>><br></span>
>>> Je crain-s que la lettre n? arrive pas<span class=""><br>
>>> I fear COMPL DEF letter NEG come.SUBJ.3SG NEG<br>
>>><br>
>>> LT: 'I am afraid that the letter does not arrive'<br>
>>> (less literal 'I am afraid that the letter may not arrive')<br>
>>><br>
>>> Japanese (example courtesy Tasaku Tsunoda):<br>
>>><br>
>>> Nanika waru-i koto=ga <br>
>>> oki-nak-at-ta=ka sinpai=da<br>
>>> something bad-NPST thing=NOM <br>
>>> happen-NEG-LINK-PST=Q worried=COP.NPNST<br>
>>> <br></span>
>>> LT: ?[I] am worried whether something bad did not happen.?<br>
>>> FT: ?I am worried that something bad happened.?<span class=""><br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Nina Dobrushina<br>
>>><br>
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<br></span></p>
<p> </p>
<div>Hannu Tommola<br>
Professor emer. of Russian Language (Translation Theory and Practice)<br>
School of Language, Translation and Literary Studies<br>
FIN-33014 University of Tampere, Finland</div>
<p>Linkit:<br>
-------<br>
[1] <a href="http://www.andamanese.net/" target="_blank">http://www.andamanese.net/</a><br type="_moz"></p>
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