<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Dear Kilu,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is also found elsewhere in the world, although in agreement forms and not in pronouns:</div><div class="">- in Banjal (Central Atlantic; Senegal):<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1PL.EXCL = 2PL<i class=""> </i>(agreement with S/A)</div><div class="">- in Udihe (Tungusic, Russia): <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1PL.EXCL = 2PL (agreement with S/A)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">However, there is at least one language that collapses first person inclusive with second person in agreement (might helpful for theoretical considerations):</div><div class="">- Cubeo (Tucanoan; Colombia): <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> 1PL.INCL = 2 (agreement with S/A; concernces only one of several sets of forms)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Sandra</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 23.06.2015, at 14:38, Bill Palmer <<a href="mailto:bill.palmer@newcastle.edu.au" class="">bill.palmer@newcastle.edu.au</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Dear Kilu<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this in a few Meso-Melanesian languages, though I can’t bring to mind off hand which ones. I’ll try to have a look and post again. It’s hard to say why this happens, but I suspect that they are collapsing into a non-3<sup class="">rd</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>person category. I suspect that 1incl is not involved because that category is a little more complex than simply a group of individuals including one or other of the SAPs.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">best<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Bill<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lingtyp [<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kilu von Prince<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, 23 June 2015 10:26 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Zachary O'Hagan<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Lingtyp] uses of first plural exclusive pronouns<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Dear Zach, and dear colleagues,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I'm not aware of the exact phenomenon you're looking for, but I'd like to piggyback on your question, because I have an observation that I find much weirder and have so far not been able to make any sense of:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In Dalkalaen (Oceanic, spoken in Vanuatu), the first person exclusive pronouns for paucal and plural number are being collapsed with the corresponding second person pronouns. Are there other languages with this property? Does anyone have a theory as to why this might happen?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Kilu<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Zachary O'Hagan <<a href="mailto:zohagan@berkeley.edu" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">zohagan@berkeley.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Dear colleagues,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It is known that first plural inclusive pronouns can be used for polite first- or second-person reference in some languages. I am searching for instances in any language in which a first plural *exclusive* pronoun can be used for polite *third*-person reference, or for instances in which a third-person pronoun can be shown to originate historically in a first plural exclusive pronoun. Possible references are much appreciated.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">-Zach O'Hagan<span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" class=""><br clear="all" class=""><span class="hoenzb"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class="hoenzb"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" class="">Zachary O'Hagan<br class="">Graduate Student<br class="">Department of Linguistics<br class="">University of California, Berkeley<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Lingtyp mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; 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