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Sorry if there was a misunderstanding: I meant to talk about the
general case, using LT only as an illustration. And of course we
shouldn't cite "strategically", but scientifically.<br>
<br>
However, it's an economic fact that if a commercially owned journal
is prestigious, it will be more profitable – regardless of whether
the income is from subscriptions or from author fees. "Nature" will
be able to charge authors much higher fees (in a future open-access
author-pays world), and likewise LT <a
href="http://www.frank-m-richter.de/freescienceblog/2012/10/30/the-prestige-of-the-publishers-brand-name-an-underestimated-factor-in-science-book-publication-costs/">will
be able to charge higher fees than less renowned journals</a>,
independently of the costs to the publisher.<br>
<br>
De Gruyter is not in an enviable position, because they are
struggling to survive in a world of increasing concentration of
publishing giants, and they have my sympathies.<br>
<br>
But since there is no real competition, journal titles should not be
owned privately, but should be under the control of the scholars, so
that the profit from a successful journal is not reaped by those who
merely provide the technical infrastructure.<br>
<br>
Since Frans didn't comment on this aspect: I seriously wonder
whether the title "Linguistic Typology" is now owned by De Gruyter,
so that ALT basically has no choice but to stick with De Gruyter.
This is a real question, because as far as I am aware, the Societas
Linguistica Europaea (SLE) gave away its rights to the title in
return for better conditions, so that SLE is now basically providing
content for "Folia Linguistica" for De Gruyter, rather than De
Gruyter publishing "Folia Linguistica" for SLE. I hope that De
Gruyter is still publishing "Linguistic Typology" for ALT, so that
its new editor can switch to a better publisher if necessary (maybe
Ubiquity Press?, cf. (Lingua>)Glossa's new setup:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.glossa-journal.org/about/">http://www.glossa-journal.org/about/</a>)<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22.12.15 17:51, Plank wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:0A6CF7AD-0621-45D7-89A0-04F7645F6966@uni-konstanz.de"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Dear Martin,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've published a few papers in LT over the last 19 years, and
I've always cited papers by others in LT that had a good claim
to be quoted. (I don't cite or not-cite strategically.) I
honestly wonder how many bucks I've thus made De Gruyter. What
numbers do you have in mind, Martin? They must be in the
six-figure dimension, close to what they earn through
Pschyrembel Klinisches Woerterbuch, since you seem seriously
worried. So worried that you appear to recommend not to publish
in LT or cite LT publications in future. Which isn't really
very nice of you -- given the effort on all sides that has gone
into producing a decent and modestly-priced typological journal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Season's Greetings</div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Frans<br>
</div>
<div>
<div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
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-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
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0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align:
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white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
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-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; ">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida
Grande'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "></span></div>
</span></span>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On 22 Dec 2015, at 15:49, Martin Haspelmath <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">The statement about ownership of
copyright needs to be interpreted in the context of "fair
open access" publication. Most publication in linguistics is
not (gold) open access, so publishers need to restrict
access in order to stay in business. Hence, they need
authors to transfer the copyright to them.<br>
<br>
(The case that Dan Everett mentions, where an author gets
royalties, is so marginal that we can ignore in on Lingtyp.)<br>
<br>
Frankly, I do not understand why retaining the copyright is
important with open access publication. Not owning the
copyright is frustrating when the publisher refuses to give
access to a work (for example, my 2002 book "Understanding
morphology" is no longer available, but the publisher
refuses to return the copyright to me, so it's unavailable,
at least through normal channels).<br>
<br>
But when the publisher has agreed to make a book available
in open access, with a liberal license, then it doesn't
really matter who owns the copyright (it seems to me).<br>
<br>
What matters most, it seems to me, is who owns the labels.
Is the label "Linguistic Typology" still owned by the
Association for Linguistic Typology? Or was it signed over
to De Gruyter in exchange for favourable conditions? If the
former, then ALT can shop around for even better conditions.
If the latter, then each time we publish (or cite) an LT
paper, we increase De Gruyter's income, independently of
their services.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
On 22.12.15 13:49, Sebastian Nordhoff wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear list,<br>
following up on the discussion about copyright and
availability, I offer a recent blogpost by the European
Commission (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://ec.europa.eu/futurium/en/content/fair-open-occess-and-future-scientific-publishing">https://ec.europa.eu/futurium/en/content/fair-open-occess-and-future-scientific-publishing</a>)<br>
<br>
"""<br>
* Fair open access could also be seen as a question of
ownership. Who owns publications? Who has the copyright?
Probably authors. As a matter of principle, copyright
should therefore probably not be signed over to other
actors such as publishers. Therefore, open access
publications should be licenced in adequate ways. Creative
Commons licences could be a good way to do this
systematically.<br>
"""<br>
<br>
Note that you can leave comments on the page, which will
actually be read by the relevant people in Brussels, so
this is a nice opportunity to make your voice heard.<br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
Sebastian<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
Martin Haspelmath (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)<br>
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History<br>
Kahlaische Strasse 10<span class="Apple-tab-span"
style="white-space:pre"> </span><br>
D-07745 Jena<br>
&<br>
Leipzig University<br>
Beethovenstrasse 15<br>
D-04107 Leipzig<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Beethovenstrasse 15
D-04107 Leipzig
</pre>
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