<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi, </div><div><br></div><div>The main use I have of Ethnologue is for looking up population stats, which I can also do elsewhere but it's more cumbersome.</div><div><br></div><div>Many of the other functions I get elsewhere.</div><div><br></div><div>Endangerment level - UNESCO's Atlas</div><div>Codes and classification - Glottolog</div><div>Genealogies - Glottolog or MultiTree</div><div>Alternative names - Glottolog</div><div><br></div><div>Then there's some summaries and calculations like Greenberg Diversity Index, indigenous vs immigrant languages, the "statistics" pages and some more functions that Glottolog could do maybe sometime in future, but doesn't right now.</div><div><br></div><div>What are the main uses for the linguists in this mailing list for Ethnologue?</div><div><br></div><div>Best, </div>Hedvig</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt"><b>Hedvig Skirgård</b><br>PhD Candidate<br><span style="color:rgb(196,89,17)">The Wellsprings of Linguistic Diversity</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">ARC Centre of Excellence for the Dynamics of Language</span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">School of Culture, History and Language<br>College of Asia and the Pacific<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">Rm 4203, H.C. Coombs Building (#9)<br>The Australian National University<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">Acton ACT 2601<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">Australia<br><br>Ph: +61 (0)451 878 060<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">E: <a href="mailto:hedvig.skirgard@anu.edu.au" target="_blank">hedvig.skirgard@anu.edu.au</a></span></p></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 31 December 2015 at 12:49, Everett, Daniel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:DEVERETT@bentley.edu" target="_blank">DEVERETT@bentley.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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The issue is not whether SIL will discontinue the service. It is whether the support will be sufficient to meet the expectations of the academic community.
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<div>On the one hand, I am concerned that SIL has taken so long to make any public statement about this. But on the other, the more fundamental question is whether it is appropriate for data bases of this type to be kept and controlled exclusively
by a missionary organization. That is not a problem for SIL. It can build any data base it wants. That is a problem for the academic community.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As was discussed at an LSA meeting several years ago, via a panel organized by Lise Dobrin (and which I participated in with several others), a concern that was expressed had to do with the fact that as the academic community allows SIL to take
on a quasi-official capacity in certain areas, e.g. the Ethnologue, SIL thereby is able to further the myth that it is an academic organization, when in reality (as I know having been a member of SIL from 1976-2002) it is a missionary organization, its members
dedicated to the establishment of churches among indigenous communities around the world. The church support for the Ethnologue is not for the furtherance of scientific research but to have a more accurate assessment of Bible translation needs of the world’s
languages. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That might be fine for some, but I think it is time that the academic community think about funding for a parallel project. Otherwise, no one should be concerned about paying the fee. This is the only way SIL seems to be able to support the project
and if interested academics are willing to cede that responsibility to SIL, then they ought not to complain or worry about fees.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In any case, I don’t use Ethnologue much anymore so am indifferent to the outcome. I simply believe that it is worth discussing the general situation, perhaps at a LingTyp meeting, and LSA, etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dan </div><div><div class="h5">
<div><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Dec 30, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Les Bruce <<a href="mailto:les_bruce@sil.org" target="_blank">les_bruce@sil.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
I don’t think we need fear that Ethnologue will be discontinued by SIL. People like Joe and Barbara Grimes who pioneered this work have been strongly supported by their constituency who have appreciated the academic work of these people. <span> </span><u></u><u></u></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<u></u> <u></u></div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
Les Bruce<u></u><u></u></div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span> </span>Lingtyp [<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>]<span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Everett, Daniel<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Wednesday, December 30, 2015 3:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span>Martin Haspelmath<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span> </span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [Lingtyp] Ethnologue goes for paid access<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<u></u> <u></u></div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
It is not at all clear that SIL is trying to make money. Maintaining these pages costs thousands of dollars per month and, as Martin says, SIL has no academic funding. Its funding comes from churches by and large and they have no particular interest in supporting
non-mission related academics. I strongly urge the academic community to develop its own resources in this area. <u></u><u></u></div>
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<u></u> <u></u></div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
DLE<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<br>
On Dec 30, 2015, at 16:28, Martin Haspelmath <<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
Yes, that's true, and here's the description:<span> </span><a href="http://www.ethnologue.com/ethnoblog/m-paul-lewis/ethnologue-launches-subscription-service" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://www.ethnologue.com/ethnoblog/m-paul-lewis/ethnologue-launches-subscription-service</a><br>
<br>
They say you can access seven data pages per month for free.<br>
<br>
I don't find this surprising. Ethnologue (and the entire academic branch of SIL) has no proper academic funding, so it's normal that they are trying to make some money out of their flagship publication.<br>
<br>
Incidentally, Glottolog has no proper funding either, but as it is now hosted by MPI-SHH in Jena (<a href="http://www.shh.mpg.de/48816/research_outline" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://www.shh.mpg.de/48816/research_outline</a>),
at least its continued existence is assured for the next dozen years or so.<br>
<br>
(I think we should try to tell our administrators that it makes little sense to try to sell academic publications. Instead, they should by properly funded by the academic publishers themselves, in order not to drive academics even further into<span> </span><a href="http://www.frank-m-richter.de/freescienceblog/2015/12/18/is-our-scholarship-based-on-illegal-foundations/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">questionable
practices</a>.)<br>
<br>
Martin<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
On 30.12.15 22:16, Peter Arkadiev wrote:<u></u><u></u></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite">
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">does any one know whether the access to the Ethnologue is going to be by paid subscription only? When trying to routinely access the information about a random language, I got a screen advertising paid subscription for $60 per year, and there is no way to bypass it and get access to the information which was freely available a week ago. This looks pretty distressing. <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Best,<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Peter<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></div>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Martin Haspelmath (<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Kahlaische Strasse 10 <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">D-07745 Jena <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">&<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Leipzig University<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Beethovenstrasse 15<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">D-04107 Leipzig <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite">
<div>
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