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      <p class="MsoNormal">My point is actually independent of the
        question of whether
        there are crosslinguistic categories.<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes"> 
        </span>Even if there are/were crosslinguistic categories, it
        doesn’t follow
        that typological classification is based on those categories. My
        statement that
        “<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
          Roman"">classifying languages
          typologically does not entail that the terms employed in the
          typological
          classification correspond to categories in the language</span>”
        is consistent
        with a position that classifying languages typologically
        sometimes classifies
        them on the basis of crosslinguistic categories and sometimes on
        the basis of
        semantically-defined notions or other notions independent of
        crosslinguistic
        categories. Randy’s statement that classifying a language as SVO
        implies that
        the language has categories of subject and object seems to imply
        that
        typological classification MUST be based on categories that
        exist within the
        individual languages.<o:p></o:p></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal">But there is a good argument that in the case
        in question,
        any typological classification that was based on categories that
        exist in
        individual languages and on languages in which word order codes
        subject and
        object would be inadequate. As I argued in Dryer (1989),
        languages in which
        word order does not code grammatical relations and in which the
        word order is
        not based on grammatical relations but in which VO word order is
        more common
        tend to have word order properties associated with VO word
        order, like
        prepositions, while analogous languages in which OV word order
        is more common
        tend to have word order properties associated with OV word
        order, like
        postpositions. What this means is that the GRAMMARS of what I
        classify as VO
        languages have nothing in common. It is only the languages that
        have something
        in common at the level of usage. Hence any notion of SVO
        language restricted to
        languages in which there are subject and object categories and
        in which word
        order is determined by grammatical relations will necessarily
        fail as the basis
        of word order correlations.<o:p></o:p></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal">The problem with Randy’s position (and
        perhaps Jan’s) is
        that he is making an a priori assumption on what is actually an
        empirical
        question.<o:p></o:p></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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        "MS
        明朝";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:JA;mso-bidi-
        language:AR-SA">Matthew
      </span>
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<![endif]--><!--StartFragment--><!--EndFragment-->On 1/18/16 11:12 PM,
      Martin Haspelmath wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:569DE1E1.4070707@shh.mpg.de" type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
      Unfortunately, to many people (not only generativists) it isn't
      obvious at all that "classifying languages typologically does not
      entail that the terms employed in the typological classification
      correspond to categories in the language" (in other words, that
      comparative concepts are distinct from descriptive categories).<br>
      <br>
      It seems that the default assumption of many people when they hear
      a term like "dative" or "clitic" is that they are concepts like
      "copper" or "red fox", i.e. natural kinds that exist independently
      of individual language systems, just as red foxes can be
      recognized independently of their habitats, and copper can even be
      recognized independently of the planet on which is occurs. This is
      false, but it hasn't been very widely recognized.<br>
      <br>
      In the 1980s, typologists discovered the important differences
      between agents, topics, and syntactic pivots (as noted by Randy),
      but such more fine-grained categories are still not sufficient for
      describing any language. Agents can be different across languages,
      topics can be different, and syntactic pivots can be different.
      Thus, even "agent", "topic" and "pivot" can only be used as
      comparative concepts, not as universally applicable descriptive
      categories that would somehow have the same meaning in different
      languages.<br>
      <br>
      Thus, it is not just confusing terminology (like Y.R. Chao's
      "subject"), but also the presupposition that categories can be
      carried over from one language to another that has confused
      linguists.<br>
      <br>
      Martin<br>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19.01.16 07:52, Matthew Dryer
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote cite="mid:569DDD3D.4000001@buffalo.edu" type="cite">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
          charset=utf-8">
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Randy says that calling Chinese SVO
          implies that Chinese has such categories. I am surprised that
          he would say that. I would have thought it was obvious that
          classifying languages typologically does not entail that the
          terms employed in the typological classification correspond to
          categories in the language. Nor does it mean that these
          categories determine or are determined by word order. I have
          certainly made that clear in my work that classifying a
          language as SVO makes no claim about the categories in the
          language, nor that these categories determine word order even
          if the language has such categories.<br>
          <br>
          Matthew<br>
          <br>
          On 1/18/16 7:42 PM, Randy John LaPolla (Prof) wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote
          cite="mid:2A374FEB-177D-460A-80CF-C11D256CEE24@ntu.edu.sg"
          type="cite"> <font class="" face="Verdana" size="4">Dan’s
            point is very important. For example, most people describing
            languages do not know how to distinguish agents, topics, and
            syntactic pivots (“subject”), and just call anything that
            occurs initially as “subject”. Sometimes even when the
            linguist is clear on the difference, they still use the word
            “subject”. E.g. Y. R. Chao, in his grammar of spoken
            Chinese, clearly stated there is nothing like what is
            referred to as “subject” in English, as all clauses are
            simply topic-comment, but he still used the term “subject”
            for what he said was purely a topic. This has confused
            generations of linguists, and they call Chinese SVO, which
            not only implies that Chinese has such categories, but also
            that these categories either determine or are determined by
            word order. See the following paper arguing against the use
            of such shortcuts, and arguing for more careful
            determination of the factors determining word order in a
            language:</font>
          <div class=""><font class="" face="Verdana" size="4"><br
                class="">
            </font></div>
          <div class="">
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:3pt;
              margin-left:18pt; text-align:justify; text-indent:-18pt;
              line-height:15pt"> <span class="" style="font-size:12pt"
                lang="EN-AU">LaPolla, Randy J. & Dory Poa. 2006. On
                describing word order. <i class="">Catching Language:
                  The Standing Challenge of Grammar Writing, </i>ed. by
                Felix Ameka, Alan Dench, & Nicholas Evans, 269-295.
                Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter.</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:3pt;
              margin-left:18pt; text-align:justify; text-indent:-18pt;
              line-height:15pt"> <span class="" style="font-size:12pt"
                lang="EN-AU">      </span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://randylapolla.net/papers/LaPolla_and_Poa_2006_On_Describing_Word_Order.pdf"
                  class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"
                    lang="EN-AU"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://randylapolla.net/papers/LaPolla_and_Poa_2006_On_Describing_Word_Order.pdf">http://randylapolla.net/papers/LaPolla_and_Poa_2006_On_Describing_Word_Order.pdf</a></span></a></span><span
                class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-AU"></span></p>
            <div class="">
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><font class="" face="Verdana" size="4">Randy</font></div>
              <div class="">
                <div class="">
                  <div class="">
                    <div class="" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);
                      letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto;
                      text-align:start; text-indent:0px;
                      text-transform:none; white-space:normal;
                      widows:auto; word-spacing:0px;
                      word-wrap:break-word">
                      <div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span"
                          style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;
                          font-size:15px"><span class=""
                            style="font-size:10pt;
                            font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
                            color:rgb(34,34,34); background-color:white">-----</span></span>
                        <div class="" style="orphans:2; widows:2;
                          word-wrap:break-word"><span
                            class="Apple-style-span"
                            style="border-collapse:separate;
                            border-spacing:0px">
                            <div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word"><span
                                class="Apple-style-span"
                                style="border-collapse:separate;
                                border-spacing:0px"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="border-collapse:separate;
                                  border-spacing:0px">
                                  <div class=""
                                    style="word-wrap:break-word"><span
                                      class="" style="font-size:10pt;
                                      font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
                                      color:rgb(34,34,34);
                                      background-color:white"><b
                                        class="">Prof. Randy J. LaPolla,
                                        PhD FAHA</b> (羅</span><span
                                      class=""
                                      style="color:rgb(34,34,34);
                                      background-color:white;
                                      font-size:13px"><font
                                        class="Apple-style-span"
                                        face="Song">仁 地</font></span><span
                                      class="" style="font-size:10pt;
                                      font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
                                      color:rgb(34,34,34);
                                      background-color:white">)|
                                      Division of Linguistics and
                                      Multilingual Studies | Nanyang
                                      Technological University</span><span
                                      class="Apple-style-span"
                                      style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;
                                      font-size:15px"><span class=""
                                        style="font-size:10pt;
                                        font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
                                        color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class=""
                                          style="background-color:white">HSS-03-45,


                                          14 Nanyang Drive, Singapore
                                          637332</span></span></span><span
                                      class="Apple-style-span"
                                      style="color:rgb(34,34,34);
                                      font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
                                      font-size:13px"><span class=""
                                        style="background-color:white"> | </span></span><span
                                      class="Apple-style-span"
                                      style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;
                                      font-size:15px"><span class=""
                                        style="font-size:10pt;
                                        font-family:Arial,sans-serif;
                                        color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span
                                          class=""
                                          style="background-color:white">Tel:



                                          (65) 6592-1825 GMT+8h | Fax:
                                          (65) 6795-6525 | <a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="http://randylapolla.net/"
                                            class=""> </a><a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://randylapolla.net/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://randylapolla.net/">http://randylapolla.net/</a></a></span></span></span></div>
                                </span></span></div>
                          </span></div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                    <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                  </div>
                  <br class="">
                  <div>
                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                      <div class="">On 19 Jan 2016, at 10:21 am,
                        Everett, Daniel <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:DEVERETT@bentley.edu" class="">DEVERETT@bentley.edu</a>>


                        wrote:</div>
                      <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                      <div class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">
                          <div class="">One of the biggest problems in
                            this regard that I have noticed is in
                            grammars of individual languages.
                            Fieldworkers sometimes confuse semantic and
                            formal categories in the grammars,
                            classifying as a syntactic structure a
                            semantic category. If typologists are not
                            careful writers/readers of grammars they may
                            bring such confusions into their typological
                            studies. Sounds obvious. But not always so. </div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">Dan<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            Sent from my iPhone</div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                            On Jan 18, 2016, at 21:11, Matthew Dryer
                            <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                              href="mailto:dryer@buffalo.edu">dryer@buffalo.edu</a>>


                            wrote:<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                          </div>
                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">
                                <p class="MsoNormal">I agree entirely
                                  with Jan on the need to distinguish
                                  semantic categories and formal
                                  categories. In fact, in a paper of
                                  mine that is I have nearly completed
                                  revising, I have an entire section
                                  arguing that generative approaches
                                  fail to note the fact that a given
                                  semantic category often has many
                                  different formal expressions over
                                  different languages and that this is
                                  problematic for implicit assumptions
                                  that equate semantic categories with
                                  formal categories.</p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">But Jan seems to
                                  think that this presents some sort of
                                  problem for the work I have done in
                                  word order typology.<span class=""
                                    style="">  </span>He says “<span
                                    class="" style="font-family:Times"
                                    lang="UZ-CYR">When these authors
                                    subsequently formulate rules and
                                    principles on the basis of the data
                                    they collected, the semantic
                                    category labels (Adjective,
                                    Genitive, Relative Clause, but also
                                    e.g. Demonstrative and Numeral)
                                    appear to stand for <u class="">formal</u>
                                    categories, i.e. categories whose
                                    members are defined on the basis of
                                    structural or morphosyntactic
                                    criteria</span>”. But this is false.
                                  They stand for semantic categories.</p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">Jan seems to think
                                  that it is somehow a problem that a
                                  given semantic category may have many
                                  different formal realizations across
                                  different languages. However, neither
                                  in his email nor in his 2009 paper in
                                  LT does he explain why he sees this as
                                  a problem.</p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal">There is, I admit,
                                  a <i class="" style="">potential</i>
                                  problem.<span class="" style="">  </span>Namely,

                                  it might be the case that for the
                                  purposes of word order correlations,
                                  the syntactic realization of a
                                  semantic category makes a major
                                  difference and that lumping the
                                  different syntactic realizations
                                  together is obscuring these
                                  differences. That is why I have spent
                                  considerable time over the years
                                  collecting data, not only on word
                                  order in particular languages, but
                                  also on the syntactic realization in
                                  these languages, precisely to examine
                                  empirically whether the syntactic
                                  realization makes a difference. The
                                  result is that while the syntactic
                                  realization sometimes makes a small
                                  difference, it is overall irrelevant:
                                  by and large, generalizations over
                                  semantic categories apply the same,
                                  regardless of the syntactic
                                  realization.</p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                <span class="" style="">Matthew</span> <br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
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</style>On 1/18/16 4:41 AM, Jan Rijkhoff wrote:<br class="">
                              </div>
                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
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                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="">I think
                                    the last word has not been said
                                    about Greenbergian word order
                                    correlations, mainly because
                                    semantic categories and formal
                                    categories have not always been
                                    clearly distinguished in
                                    post-Greenberg (1963) word order
                                    studies (Rijkhoff 2009a).* For
                                    example, both Hawkins (1983: 12) and
                                    Dryer (1992: 120) claimed that they
                                    followed Greenberg (1963: 74) in
                                    ‘basically applying semantic
                                    criteria’ to identify members of the
                                    same category across languages, but
                                    in practice these semantically
                                    defined forms and constructions are
                                    treated as formal entities. </p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="">If
                                    Hawkins and Dryer applied semantic
                                    criteria in their cross-linguistic
                                    studies, this implies, for example,
                                    that their semantic category
                                    Adjective must also have included
                                    verbal and nominal expressions of
                                    adjectival notions (such as relative
                                    clauses and genitives), which are
                                    typically used in languages that
                                    lack a dedicated class of
                                    adjectives:</p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="text-autospace:none"><u
                                      class=""><span class="" style="">Kiribati


                                      </span></u><span class="" style="">(Ross


                                      1998: 90)</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="text-autospace:none"><span
                                      class="" style="">(1)<i class="">
                                      </i><i class="" style="">te<span
                                          class="" style="">      </span>uee<span
                                          class="" style="">      </span>ae<span
                                          class="" style="">    </span>e<span
                                          class="" style="">          </span>
                                        tikiraoi</i><span class=""
                                        style="">         </span>(relative

                                      clause)</span><span class=""
                                      style=""></span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="text-autospace:none"><span
                                      class="" style=""><span class=""
                                        style="">     </span>art<span
                                        class="" style="">  </span></span><span
                                      class="" style="">flower  <span
                                        class=""
                                        style="font-variant:small-caps">rel 


                                      </span>3<span class=""
                                        style="font-variant:small-caps">sg.s


                                          <span class="" style=""></span></span>be.pretty<span
                                        class="" style="">       </span>
                                    </span><span class="" style=""></span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="text-autospace:none"><span
                                      class="" style=""><span class=""
                                        style="">     </span>‘a pretty
                                      flower’ (lit. ‘a flower that
                                      pretties’)<span class="" style="">             


                                      </span></span></p>
                                  <div class="" style=""><span class=""
                                      style=""> </span><br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><u
                                      class=""><span class="" style="">Makwe</span></u><span
                                      class="" style=""> (Devos 2008:
                                      136)</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
                                      class="" style="">(2)<span
                                        class="" style=""></span><i
                                        class="" style="">   muú-nu<span
                                          class="" style="">      </span>w-á=ki-búúli</i><span
                                        class="" style="">                

                                      </span>(genitive)</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
                                      class="" style=""><span class=""
                                        style="">     </span><span
                                        class=""
                                        style="font-variant:small-caps">nc1</span>-person 


                                      <span class=""
                                        style="font-variant:small-caps">
                                        pp1-gen=nc7</span>-silence</span></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
                                      class="" style="">    ‘a silent
                                      person’ (lit. ‘person of silence’)</span></p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="">Relative
                                    Clause and Genitive are, however,
                                    also semantic categories in their
                                    own right in word order studies by
                                    Dryer and Hawkins.</p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="">When
                                    these authors subsequently formulate
                                    rules and principles on the basis of
                                    the data they collected, the
                                    semantic category labels (Adjective,
                                    Genitive, Relative Clause, but also
                                    e.g. Demonstrative and Numeral)
                                    appear to stand for <u class="">formal</u>
                                    categories, i.e. categories whose
                                    members are defined on the basis of
                                    structural or morphosyntactic
                                    criteria. This apparent change of
                                    category is not explained, but can
                                    be seen in the case of the
                                    ‘Heaviness Serialization Principle’
                                    (Hawkins 1983: 90-91) and the
                                    ‘Branching Direction Theory’ (Dryer
                                    1992).</p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-right:13.75pt;
                                    text-autospace:none">Hawkins defined
                                    ‘heaviness’ in terms of such
                                    non-semantic criteria as (a) length
                                    and quantity of morphemes, (b)
                                    quantity of words, (c) syntactic
                                    depth of branching nodes, and (d)
                                    inclusion of dominated constituents.
                                  </p>
                                  <div class=""
                                    style="margin-right:13.75pt"> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="text-align:justify;
                                    text-justify:inter-ideograph;
                                    page-break-after:avoid;
                                    text-autospace:none"> <span
                                      class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">(3)<span
                                        class="" style=""><i class="">  
                                        </i> </span><i class=""
                                        style="">Heaviness Serialization
                                        Principle</i></span><span
                                      class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><span
                                        class="" style="">: </span>Rel<span
                                        class="" style="">  </span>≥<sub
                                        class="">R</sub><span class=""
                                        style="">  </span>Gen<span
                                        class="" style="">  </span>≥<sub
                                        class="">R</sub><span class=""
                                        style="">  </span>A<span
                                        class="" style="">  </span>≥<sub
                                        class="">R </sub><span class=""
                                        style=""> </span>Dem/Num</span>
                                  </p>
                                  <div class=""
                                    style="margin-right:13.75pt"> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-right:13.75pt;
                                    text-autospace:none">Thus a member
                                    of the (semantic? formal?) category
                                    Relative Clause is ‘heavier’ than a
                                    member of the (semantic? formal?)
                                    category Adjective. But Hawkins’s
                                    semantic category Adjective must
                                    also have included members of the
                                    ‘heavy’ formal categories Genitive
                                    and Relative Clause (see (1) and (2)
                                    above). It is not clear whether the
                                    original members of the single
                                    semantic category Adjective were
                                    later ‘re-categorized’ and
                                    distributed over the formal
                                    categories Adjective, Genitive and
                                    Relative Clause in the <i class=""
                                      style=""><span class="" style=""
                                        lang="EN-GB">Heaviness
                                        Serialization Principle</span></i>.</p>
                                  <div class=""
                                    style="margin-right:13.75pt"> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="">Dryer’s
                                    ‘Branching Direction Theory’ refers
                                    to a structural feature of the
                                    internal syntactic organization of a
                                    constituent. According to the
                                    ‘Branching Direction Theory’,
                                    relative clauses and genitives are
                                    phrases, i.e. members of a branching
                                    category, whose position relative to
                                    the noun correlates with the
                                    relative order of Verb and Object,
                                    whereas adjectives are non-branching
                                    elements, whose position relative to
                                    the noun does not correlate with OV
                                    or VO order (Dryer 1992: 107-8,
                                    110-1). In this case, too, one may
                                    assume that the semantic category
                                    Adjective also included members of
                                    the formal categories Genitive and
                                    Relative Clause (see examples
                                    above). Again we do not know what
                                    happened to the branching/phrasal
                                    members of the erstwhile(?) semantic
                                    category Adjective (relative
                                    clauses, genitives) when this
                                    category was turned into the formal
                                    (non-branching) category Adjective
                                    that is part of the ‘Branching
                                    Direction Theory’.</p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="">So as to
                                    avoid categorial confusion in
                                    cross-linguistic research (and so as
                                    to make it possible to produce more
                                    reliable results), it is necessary
                                    to keep formal and semantic
                                    categories apart, as members of
                                    these two categories have their own
                                    ordering rules or preferences. I
                                    also think it is an illusion to
                                    think we can give a satisfactory
                                    account of the grammatical behaviour
                                    of linguistic units -including word
                                    order- without taking into
                                    consideration functional
                                    (interpersonal) categories or
                                    ‘discourse units’ (Rijkhoff 2009b,
                                    2015). </p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="">*
                                    Greenberg (1963: 88) made it clear
                                    that he sometimes used formal
                                    criteria to remove certain members
                                    of a semantic category before he
                                    formulated a universal, as in the
                                    case of his Universal 22.</p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font
                                      class="" size="2"><b class=""
                                        style="">References</b></font></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font
                                      class="" size="2">Devos, M. 2008.
                                      <i class="" style=""> A Grammar of
                                        Makwe</i>. München: Lincom
                                      Europa.</font></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font
                                      class="" size="2">Dryer, M. S.,
                                      1992. The Greenbergian word order
                                      correlations. <i class=""
                                        style="">Language</i> 68-1,
                                      81-138.</font></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:14.2pt;
                                    text-indent:-14.2pt"><font class=""
                                      size="2">Greenberg, J. H. 1963.
                                      Some universals of grammar with
                                      particular reference to the order
                                      of meaningful elements. In J. H.
                                      Greenberg (ed.), <i class=""
                                        style="">Universals of Language</i>,
                                      73-113. Cambridge MA: MIT.</font></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:14.2pt;
                                    text-indent:-14.2pt"><font class=""
                                      size="2">Hawkins, J. A., 1983. <i
                                        class="" style="">Word Order
                                        Universals: Quantitative
                                        analyses of linguistic structure</i>.
                                      New York: Academic Press.</font></p>
                                  <p class="" style="margin-left:14.2pt;
                                    text-indent:-14.2pt"><font class=""
                                      size="2"><span class="" style="">Rijkhoff,


                                        J. 2009a. </span><span class=""
                                        style="">On the (un)suitability
                                        of semantic categories. <i
                                          class="" style=""> Linguistic
                                          Typology</i> 13-1, 95‑104.</span></font></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:14.2pt;
                                    text-indent:-14.2pt;
                                    text-autospace:none"> <font
                                      class="" size="2"><span class=""
                                        style="">Rijkhoff, Jan. 2009b. </span>On
                                      the co-variation between form and
                                      function of adnominal possessive
                                      modifiers in Dutch and English. <span
                                        class="" style="">In William B.
                                        McGregor (ed.), <i class=""
                                          style="">The Expression of
                                          Possession</i> (</span>The
                                      Expression of Cognitive Categories
                                      [ECC] 2),<span class="" style="">
                                        51‑106. Berlin and New York:
                                        Mouton de Gruyter.</span></font></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:14.2pt;
                                    text-indent:-14.2pt;
                                    text-autospace:none"> <font
                                      class="" size="2"><span class=""
                                        style="">Rijkhoff, J. 2015. Word
                                        order. In James D. Wright
                                        (editor-in-chief), <i class=""
                                          style="">International
                                          Encyclopedia of the Social
                                          & Behavioral Sciences
                                          (Second Edition)</i>, Vol. 25,
                                        644–656. Oxford: Elsevier.</span><span
                                        class="" style=""></span></font></p>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:14.2pt;
                                    text-indent:-14.2pt"><font class=""
                                      size="2">Ross, M. 1998.
                                      Proto-Oceanic adjectival
                                      categories and their morphosyntax.
                                      <i class="" style="">Oceanic
                                        Linguistics</i> 37-1, 85-119.</font></p>
                                  <div class=""
                                    style="margin-left:14.2pt;
                                    text-indent:-14.2pt"><span
                                      class="p-match"> </span><br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:14.2pt;
                                    text-indent:-14.2pt"><span
                                      class="p-match">Jan Rijkhoff</span></p>
                                  <div class="" style=""> <br
                                      class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div class=""
                                      style="font-family:Tahoma;
                                      font-size:13px"> </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class=""
                                    style="font-family:'Times New
                                    Roman'; font-size:16px">
                                    <hr tabindex="-1" class="">
                                    <div id="divRpF867311" class=""
                                      style="direction:ltr"><font
                                        class="" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b
                                          class="">From:</b> Lingtyp [<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></a>]
                                        on behalf of Alan Rumsey [<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Alan.Rumsey@anu.edu.au"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Alan.Rumsey@anu.edu.au">Alan.Rumsey@anu.edu.au</a></a>]<br
                                          class="">
                                        <b class="">Sent:</b> Monday,
                                        January 18, 2016 12:23 PM<br
                                          class="">
                                        <b class="">To:</b> <a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"> </a><a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></a><br
                                          class="">
                                        <b class="">Subject:</b> Re:
                                        [Lingtyp] Structural congruence
                                        as a dimension of language
                                        complexity/simplicity<br
                                          class="">
                                      </font><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class=""><span
                                        id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"
                                        class="" style="">
                                        <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">Many


                                          thanks to all of you who
                                          responded to my posting on
                                          this topic, both online and
                                          off. All the readings you have
                                          pointed me to have indeed been
                                          highly relevant and very
                                          useful, including an excellent
                                          recent publication by Jennifer
                                          Culbertson that she pointed me
                                          to in her offline response,
                                          at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.01964/abstract">http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.01964/abstract</a></div>
                                      </span>
                                      <div class="" style=""><br
                                          class="">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="" style="">Thanks
                                        especially to Matthew Dryer for
                                        pointing out that the
                                        Greenbergian ‘universal’ I had
                                        used as an example – the
                                        putative association between VSO
                                        and noun-adjective order — had
                                        been falsified by his much more
                                        thorough 1992 study <span
                                          class=""
                                          style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">“The



                                          Greenbergian Word Order
                                          Correlations”.  My reading of
                                          that article and further
                                          correspondence with him has
                                          confirmed that, by contrast,
                                          Greenberg’s universals no 3
                                          and 4 were solidly confirmed
                                          by his study, namely that SOV </span>languages


                                        are far more likely to have
                                        postpositions than prepositions
                                        and that the reverse is true for
                                        VSO  languages. </div>
                                      <div class="" style=""><br
                                          class="">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="">Drawing on all your
                                        suggestions, Francesca
                                        and I have now finished a draft
                                        of the paper referred to in my
                                        posting, called '<span class=""
                                          style="text-align:center"><span
                                            class="" lang="EN-US">Structural


                                            Congruence as a Dimension of
                                            Language Complexity: </span></span><span
                                          class="" lang="EN-US">An
                                          Example from Ku Waru Child
                                          Language’.<b class=""> </b></span>If
                                        any of you would like to read it
                                        please let me know and I’ll send
                                        it to you.</div>
                                      <style class="">
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        {font-family:Cambria}
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        {margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt}
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        {direction:ltr;
        font-family:Arial;
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                                      <div class=""><br class="">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="">Alan</div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br class="">
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                                <br class="">
                                <pre class="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
                              </blockquote>
                              <br class="">
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                            <div class=""><span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
                                class="">
                              <span class="">Lingtyp mailing list</span><br
                                class="">
                              <span class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
                                  class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span><br
                                class="">
                              <span class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp"
                                  class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></span><br
                                class="">
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                        _______________________________________________<br
                          class="">
                        Lingtyp mailing list<br class="">
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
                          class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br
                          class="">
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                          href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br
                          class="">
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br class="">
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <hr> <font face="Arial" color="Gray" size="2">CONFIDENTIALITY:

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          <br>
          <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
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</pre>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
        <br>
        <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
        <br>
        <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Haspelmath (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10   
D-07745 Jena  
&
Leipzig University
Beethovenstrasse 15
D-04107 Leipzig    





</pre>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
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