<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Notions like wings in biology are
somewhat analogous.<br>
<br>
On 1/20/16 4:46 PM, Östen Dahl wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a1d2937eed894f4d89d4efd07d5548fc@ebox-prod-srv07.win.su.se"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;
mso-fareast-language:JA;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML - förformaterad Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
span.HTML-frformateradChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML - förformaterad Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML - förformaterad";
font-family:"Consolas",serif;
color:black;
mso-fareast-language:JA;}
span.E-postmall21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I am still a bit puzzled by Martin’s
“comparative concepts” so here is a question for him: Are
comparative concepts specific to linguistics or can you find
something analogous in other fields, such as the natural and
social sciences?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">östen
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:SV"
lang="EN-US">Från:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:SV"
lang="EN-US"> Lingtyp
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>] <b>För
</b>Matthew Dryer<br>
<b>Skickat:</b> den 20 januari 2016 20:32<br>
<b>Till:</b> Pete</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:SV">r
Arkadiev <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peterarkadiev@yandex.ru"><peterarkadiev@yandex.ru></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Ämne:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Structural congruence as a
dimension of language complexity/simplicity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Peter,<span
style="mso-fareast-language:SV"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
point of classifying the language as SVO is that it behaves
like an SVO language as far as word order correlations are
concerned. Not classifying it as SVO means that one would
fail to explain the correlations. Hawkins’ theory predicts
that such a language counts as SVO. The class of languages I
treat as SVO is defined roughly as those languages where the
statistically dominant order in usage is AVP. There is
nothing that the grammars of this set of languages share:
these languages resemble each other only at the level of
usage, not at the level of grammar. Hawkins’ theory predicts
that the set of languages that I classify as SVO should tend
to have prepositions. His theory predicts that the set of
languages that have prepositions need not have anything in
common in their grammars, only at the level of usage.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Matthew<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="mso-fareast-language:SV">On 1/19/16 2:58 PM,
Peter Arkadiev wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Then I can't help asking a very naive question, appearing as though I haven't read the relevant literature (I have): if, as Matthew says, "classifying a language as SVO makes no claim about the categories in the language, nor that these categories determine word order even if the language has such categories", what's the point of classifying the given language as SVO in the first place? If the categories of a particular language can be totally at variance with those notions which typologists employ for comparative purposes, then the fact that a given language happens to be classified as SVO appears to be completely arbitrary and non-informative. Even worse, given this stance regarding the correspondence between comparative concepts and language-particular categories, word order correlations just can't follow, let alone be explained. Correlations between, say, OV and NPost in a given language are and have to be stated in terms of the categories relevant for <o:p
></o:p><
/
pre>
<pre> this lan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> g<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>uage, aren't they? And if such language-particular correlations can be mapped on robustly observed cross-linguistic patterns subject to well-articulated processing explanations such as those advanced by Hawkins, then, by necessity, this mapping cannot be just arbitrary, and vice versa.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Again, I admit that I don't understand something.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Best,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Peter<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:SV"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>