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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I've greatly enjoyed
following this
high-quality discussion: thank you all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In particular, I think the
discussion has
helped me to articulate an unease that I've always felt about
the distinction
between language-specific categories and what Martin calls
comparative
concepts.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I agree
wholeheartedly that we
need to distinguish between, say, the Latin Dative, and a
typologically-informed concept of dative that the Latin Dative
may or may not instantiate to
whatever degree.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>(I also
agree that it's
unfortunate that we don't have enough distinct terms to assign
to all of these
different things, and that we sometimes end up falling prey to
the resulting
terminological confusion.)<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Where
I think
I part ways with some of my colleagues is that I do not accept
that
language-specific categories and comparative concepts constitute
two distinct
and well-defined ontological types.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Let's take the wing analogy.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I agree that a statement
such as "bats
have wings" may be of more interest for somebody interested in
comparative
evolution than for a specialist in bats — in that sense it
resembles a comparative
concept in linguistics.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>But
still, bats
do have wings, even though they may differ in many ways from
those of birds or
bees.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>And yes,
ontologically bat wings
are a very different type of thing than, say, whatever feature
of bat DNA it is
that "generates" those wings.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>However, these different ontological types all have a
place within a
description of bats, even though a bat specialist might be more
interested in
the DNA while the comparative evolutionist will be more
interested in the
wings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Getting back to languages,
let's consider
three hypothetical (and somewhat simplistic cases of) languages
that Matthew
would classify as having SVO basic word order:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Language A:<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>has well-defined Ss and Os, and specific linearization
rules that put
the S before the V and the O after it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Language B:<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>has well-defined Ss and Os, but no linearization rules
that refer to
them; instead it has specific linearization rules that put the A
before the V
and the P after it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Language C:<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>does not have well-defined Ss and Os, but has specific
linearization
rules that put the A before the V and the P after it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In Matthew's WALS chapter,
all three
languages are characterized as SVO; this is an example of what
Martin and
others call a comparative concept.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>And
as we have found out over the last several decades, basic word
order is a very
useful comparative concept for us to have.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>However, our three hypothetical languages arrive at their
SVO order in
very different ways, giving rise to the impression that the
respective bottom-up
language-specific descriptions of the three languages will share
no common
statement to the effect that they have SVO word order.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>And indeed, adequate
bottom-up
language-specific descriptions of these three languages should
look very
different, reflecting the very different provenances of their
SVO word
orders.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">However, I would like to
suggest that there
is also a place within the bottom-up language-specific
description of each of
the three languages for some kind of statement to the effect
that the language
has SVO word order (in the sense of Matthew's WALS chapter).<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Of course this is a
different kind of
statement to the ones previously posited, making reference to
different levels
of description.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>But
we're already used
to multiple levels of description within language-specific
descriptions, for
example when we talk about Ss and Os but also As and Ps, topics
and comments,
and so forth.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>So there
is no good reason
not to allow for a WALS-style word-order category such as SVO
not to be written
into the grammatical descriptions of each of our hypothetical
three languages,
even if in some cases it may be "derivative" or
"epiphenomenal", and even if in some cases it is of relatively
little
interest to language specialists. (Though as Matthew pointed out
earlier on in
this thread, the basic word order facts of a language have
implications
regarding other properties of the language in question even in
those cases
where the basic word order is "derivative" of other factors.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So what I'm suggesting,
then, is that so-called
comparative concepts have a place in the grammatical
descriptions of individual
languages.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>This is not
to deny that
comparative concepts are different kinds of creatures, which —
by definition —
are of greater relevance to cross-linguistic comparison than to
the
understanding of individual languages.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>It follows that the ontological diversity of
language-specific
categories and comparative concepts should be present within the
grammatical
descriptions of individual languages.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Some will object to this, but I have no problem with the
proposition
that a good description of a language will be ontologically
heterogeneous, e.g.
containing some statements that are psychologically real and
others that are
not.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>(I note here
Eitan's suggestion earlier
in this thread that some comparative concepts may also be
cognitively real.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Finally, and somewhat
tangentially, a
practical consideration:<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>a
good
reference grammar, while describing a language on its own terms
without
imposing categories from outside, should at the same time
maintain a parallel
reader-friendly typologically-informed narrative, one of whose
major tasks is
to mention all of those cross-linguistically familiar
typological categories —
e.g. case marking, agreement, gender, and so forth — that are
absent from the
language, if only to reassure the reader that the author didn't
just omit
mention of them for reasons of space, lack of interest, or
whatnot.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Cambria;
mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria;
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<![endif]--><!--StartFragment--><!--EndFragment-->
--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-812-73567992
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