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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, a “classifier” is a kind of grammatical
marker, while
“gender” is a kind of grammatical feature (Corbett 2012).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are many well-known comparable kinds of
grammatical
markers, but only half a dozen comparable features (case, person,
number, tense,
aspect, voice). Most feature values are expressed by readily
segmentable
grammatical markers (case markers, person markers, tense markers,
etc.), but a
few are not – hence the justification to treat these differently
(as expressed by feature
value exponents, not markers).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But from a world-wide perspective,
non-segmentable
expressions of case, tense and voice are somewhat marginal (though
prominent in
Indo-European), and I think it’s legitimate to base one’s key
terminology on
the idealization that we are generally dealing with grammatical
markers. (And for classifiers, nobody has proposed a feature
"classifierhood".)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From this perspective, numeral classifiers are
on a par with
gender markers (as I mentioned in my original message).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And the term “gen-ifier” is completely parallel
to “class-ifier”
– it’s a marker that puts a noun in a genus.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(Actually, since English distinguishes between
“gender” and
“genus”, one might even introduce “genus” as a new feature term, a
cover term
for gender and classifierhood. That would certainly be found more
acceptable to neophobics than "clender".)<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
Martin<br>
<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21.03.17 20:38, Sebastian Nordhoff
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:151b77bd-37c3-5005-b587-b21606fe7fee@glottotopia.de"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear all,
as someone who has not worked extensively on either of these concepts, I
still have to say that the term "genifier" strikes me as odd. My first
thought upon seeing the subject of the mail was "OK, this will be about
making something a gender, or a gene, or a knee-like thing maybe, let's
see". I was misled by terms such as "intensifier", used to make
something more intense, and certainly also, albeit more on phonological
grounds, by "gentrification", which is a widely debated topic where I live.
The attempt to blend "GEnder" and "classiFIER" is not successful in my
view, as "-fier" is not really the important formative here; "class" is.
If there is a desire for a blend, I would rather go for "Clender" or
"Clander", which would not lead to misparsings/misinterpretations as the
one I had.
As a final note, a "classifier" does something to an X, while "gender"
is a property of an X.
(1) /ladida/ is of gender X
(2) ?/ladida/ is of classifier X
(3) ?/-dada/ is a gender
(4) /-dada/ is a classifier
It is unclear to me whether the two concepts "gender" and "classifier"
do actually have a superordinate concept. Possibly, one has to use
"gender marker" and "classifier", or "noun class" and "gender" as
subordinate concepts to arrive at a good superordinate concept.
Best wishes
Sebastian
On 03/20/2017 04:05 PM, Martin Haspelmath wrote:
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<pre wrap="">Dear typologists,
Cross-linguistic terminology (comparative concepts) should be both clear
and conform to the tradition, in order to preserve continuity with the
older literature.
In the case of the terms "gender" and "classifier", it seems that these
two goals cannot be achieved simultaneously without coining a new term
("genifier").
There is quite a bit of general literature on gender/classifiers (e.g.
Dixon 1986; Grinevald 2000; Aikhenvald 2000; Seifart 2010; Corbett &
Fedden 2016), but none of these works provide clear definitions of these
terms, and the more recent literature (e.g. Corbett & Fedden, and also
Seifart & Payne 2007) actually emphasizes that there is no reason to say
that gender markers and classifiers are distinct phenomena in the
world's languages.
Thus, it seems to me that we need the new term "genifier", perhaps
defined as follows:
A *genifier system* is a system of grammatical markers which occur on
nominal modifiers, predicates or anaphoric pronouns, and each of which
expresses (i.e. normally reflects, but sometimes contributes) a broad
property other than person and number of the controlling noun (i.e. for
nominal modifiers: the modificatum, for predicates: an argument, for
anaphoric pronouns: the antecedent).
The alternative to coining a new term, it seems to me, would be to
extend the meaning of the term "gender" or of the term "classifier" in
such a way that there would be no more continuity with the earlier
literature.
Given the above definition of genifier, we can perhaps define "gender"
and "numeral classifier" as follows (as arbitrary subcategories of
genifiers, defined just to preserve continuity with the older literature):
A *gender system* (= a system of gender markers) is a system of
genifiers which includes no more than 20 genifiers and which is not
restricted to numeral modifiers.
A *numeral classifier system* is a system of genifiers which is
restricted to numeral (plus optionally other adnominal) modifiers.
I wonder if the above definitions have any obvious defects, i.e. any
cases that everyone would call gender or numeral classifier and that
wouldn't fall under the definitions, or cases that fall under them and
that nobody would call gender or numeral classifier.
Note that the new term "genifier" also has the advantage that the whole
domain can be called *genification* (rather than the cumbersome "noun
classification/nominal classification", which is also vague because
there are all kinds of "classes" or "classifications" of nouns which
have nothing to do with genifiers).
Any comments?
Thanks,
Martin
*************************
References
Aikhenvald, Alexandra Y. 2000. /Classifiers: A typology of noun
categorization devices/. Oxford: Oxford University Press.
Corbett, Greville G. & Sebastian Fedden. 2016. Canonical gender.
/Journal of Linguistics/ 52(3). 495--531.
Dixon, R. M. W. 1986. Noun classes and noun classification in
typological perspective. In Colette Grinevald Craig (ed.), /Noun classes
and categorization/, 105--112. Amsterdam: Benjamins.
Grinevald, Colette G. 2000. A morphosyntactic typology of classifiers.
In Gunter Senft (ed.), /Systems of nominal classification/, 50--92.
Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Seifart, Frank. 2010. Nominal classification. /Language and Linguistics
Compass/ 4(8). 719--736.
Seifart, Frank & Doris L. Payne. 2007. Nominal classification in the
North West Amazon: Issues in areal diffusion and typological
characterization. /International Journal of American Linguistics/ 73(4).
381--387.
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
IPF 141199
Nikolaistrasse 6-10
D-04109 Leipzig
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