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    Ian is quite right in pointing out that d/t place-of-articulation
    asymmetry is under-reported:  I could offer my own native language
    Hebrew as an example of a relatively well-described language in
    which such an asymmetry exists but — to the best of my knowledge —
    has not been previously described in the literature.<br>
    <br>
    According to the map by Donohue et al (2012) map, most cases of d/t
    place-of-articulation asymmetry occur almost exclusively in two
    large regions, one encompassing much of equatorial Africa, the
    second consisting of the Mekong-<br>
    Mamberamo area plus spillover into eastern parts of South Asia,
    Taiwan, and<br>
    Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands and Vanuatu.<br>
    <br>
    What's particularly interesting for the history of the
    Mekong-Mamberamo area is that d/t place-of-articulation asymmetry,
    while common in the Austronesian languages of Indonesia, is (well,
    so far at least) unattested in the Philippines.  This suggests a
    scenario in which the Austronesian languages spreading south from
    Taiwan through the Philippines into the Indonesian archipelago
    originally didn't have it, but then picked it up (along with other
    Mekong-Mamberamo features) from the now-extinct non-Austronesian
    languages of the Indonesian archipelago.<br>
    <br>
    David<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Donohue, Mark, Rebecca Hetherington & James McElvenny. 2012.
    World Phonotactics Database. Canberra: Australian National
    University. http: //phonotactics.anu.edu.au.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/04/2017 13:48, Ian Maddieson
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:84FB911B-D1DA-4CF5-930C-CA5BA479CBF2@berkeley.edu"
      type="cite">
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      One feature David mentions is “d/t place-of-articulation
      asymmetry” — I assume this refers to
      <div class="">the observation that a voiced coronal plosive in a
        language without multiple coronal place</div>
      <div class="">contrasts may have a more retracted place of
        articulation than a voiceless counterpart. </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">This is observed in quite a few areas around the
        world (and could be more frequent if we</div>
      <div class="">had better data on the phonetics of more languages),
        so this not might be a particularly strong</div>
      <div class="">areal marker. A few examples are Kisi and Bowiri in
        West Africa, Wapishana in South America </div>
      <div class="">and Sui in China.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Ian</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Apr 4, 2017, at 21:24, Hedvig Skirgård <<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:hedvig.skirgard@gmail.com" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hedvig.skirgard@gmail.com">hedvig.skirgard@gmail.com</a></a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <div dir="ltr" class="">Hi David, 
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">That's an excellent idea! Thanks. Some of
                  these I know from reading other papers of yours, and
                  some already overlap with Reesink, Dunn et al and with
                  Grambank. Would it be possible however to get some
                  more detailed definition on them? For example, what
                  constituted "optional TAM marking"? What did it take
                  for a language to be classified as "yes" for that
                  feature?</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">/Hedvig</div>
              </div>
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                <br class="">
                <div class="gmail_quote">On 5 April 2017 at 13:14, David
                  Gil <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"
                      class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></a>></span> wrote:<br
                    class="">
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> Hi
                      Hedvig,<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      in Gil (2015) I define a Mekong-Mamberamo area
                      extending from Mainland Southeast Asia through the
                      Indonesian archipelago and into western new
                      Guinea, characterized by 17 features which I've
                      listed below.  In the final section of the paper,
                      I briefly discuss the extent to which these 17
                      features "overflow" from the Mekong-Mamberamo area
                      into Oceania, due to the spread of Austronesian
                      languages from New Guinea into the Pacific.  So
                      you may wish to follow up on this and examine the
                      extent to which the languages of Oceania exhibit
                      these features.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Best,<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      David<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <p class="m_5279137942271857238ReferencesT"
                        style="margin-left:27.35pt"><span class=""
                          lang="EN-US">Gil, David (2015) "The
                          Mekong-Mamberamo Linguistic Area", in N.J.
                          Enfield and B. Comrie eds., <i class="">Languages

                            of Mainland Southeast Asia, The State of the
                            Art</i>, Pacific Linguistics, DeGruyter
                          Mouton, Berlin, 266-355.</span></p>
                      <br class="">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class=""></span><i
                            class="">17 Mekong-Mamberamo Properties</i></span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>1.<span
                            class="">       </span>passing gesture</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>2.<span
                            class="">       </span>repeated dental
                          clicks expressing amazement</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>3.<span
                            class="">       </span>conventionalized
                          greeting with 'where'</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>4.<span
                            class="">       </span>'eye day' > 'sun'
                          lexicalization</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>5.<span
                            class="">       </span>d/t
                          place-of-articulation asymmetry</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>6.<span
                            class="">       </span>numeral classifiers</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>7.<span
                            class="">       </span>verby adjectives</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>8.<span
                            class="">       </span>basic SVO word order</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>9.<span
                            class="">       </span>iamitive perfects</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>10.<span
                            class="">     </span>'give' causatives</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>11.<span
                            class="">     </span>low differentiation of
                          adnominal attributive constructions</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>12.<span
                            class="">     </span>weakly developed
                          grammatical voice</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>13.<span
                            class="">     </span>isolating word
                          structure</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>14.<span
                            class="">     </span>short words</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>15.<span
                            class="">     </span>low
                          grammatical-morpheme density</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>16.<span
                            class="">     </span>optional thematic-role
                          flagging</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                          class="" lang="EN-US"><span class="">        </span>17.<span
                            class="">     </span>optional TAM marking</span></p>
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="h5"> <br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          <div
                            class="m_5279137942271857238moz-cite-prefix">On
                            05/04/2017 10:21, Hedvig Skirgård wrote:<br
                              class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="h5">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="">
                              <div class="">
                                <div
                                  class="m_5279137942271857238gmail_signature"
                                  data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                    <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                      <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                        <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                          <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                            <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                              <div style="margin: 0cm
                                                0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
                                                11pt; font-family:
                                                Calibri, sans-serif;"
                                                class=""><span
                                                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"
                                                  class="">Dear
                                                  typologists,</span><br
                                                  class="">
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">What
                                      are interesting grammatical
                                      typological features for capturing
                                      the diversity of Oceania? I sent
                                      this message earlier to the
                                      mailing list for pacific
                                      linguistics, but I thought I'd try
                                      here as well since I didn't get
                                      any response there yet.</p>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">I
                                      work with a grammatical survey of
                                      the world's languages, Grambank,
                                      and I'm also personally interested
                                      in Oceania in particular for my
                                      PhD project. I've been doing some
                                      thinking as to what features would
                                      be interesting to cover to more
                                      accurately capture the grammatical
                                      diversity of Oceania in
                                      particular, besides the feature
                                      set that we already have for the
                                      world-sample.</p>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">One
                                      guide are the features that
                                      Reesink, Dunn et al used in their
                                      publications on Sahul and
                                      Melanesia (see attachments and
                                      references listed below).  They've
                                      taken in input from a lot of
                                      previous literature and
                                      commentary, so it's a good set.</p>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">Besides
                                      those, do you have other
                                      suggestions?</p>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">From
                                      a rather Samoan-centric
                                      perspective, I'd be inclined to
                                      add features like these:</p>
                                    <ul class="">
                                      <li class="">Is there a "neutral"
                                        choice in attributive
                                        possession, i.e. not
                                        alienable/inalienable,
                                        dominant/subordinate?</li>
                                      <li class="">Can the agent be
                                        expressed as the possessor of
                                        the verb instead of encoded in
                                        the more canonical
                                        ergative/nominative manner?</li>
                                      <li class="">Can TA markers be
                                        entirely dropped in main
                                        clauses?</li>
                                      <li class="">Is number of absolute
                                        arguments expressed by
                                        reduplication on the verb?<br
                                          class="">
                                      </li>
                                    </ul>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">Clearly
                                      these need further refinement, I
                                      just wanted to give some examples.
                                      Looking forward to more
                                      suggestions!</p>
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt;" class=""><font class=""
                                        face="arial, helvetica,
                                        sans-serif" size="2"><b class="">Tōfā
                                          soifua,<br class="">
                                        </b></font><b class=""><font
                                          class="" face="arial,
                                          helvetica, sans-serif"
                                          size="2">Hedvig Skirgård</font></b></div>
                                    <b class=""><br class="">
                                      References:<br class="">
                                    </b>Dunn, Michael, Angela Terrill,
                                    Ger Reesink, Robert A. Foley &
                                    Stephen C. Levinson. 2005.
                                    Structural phylogenetics and the
                                    reconstruction of ancient language
                                    history. Science 309. 2072–2075. <br
                                      class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Dunn, Michael, Robert A. Foley,
                                    Stephen C. Levinson, Ger Reesink
                                    & Angela Terrill. 2007.
                                    Statistical reasoning in the
                                    evaluation of typological diversity
                                    in Island Melanesia. Oceanic
                                    Linguistics 46(2). 388-403. <br
                                      class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Dunn, Michael, Stephen C. Levinson,
                                    Eva Lindström, Ger Reesink, &
                                    Angela Terrill. 2008. Structural
                                    phylogeny in historical linguistics:
                                    Methodological explorations applied
                                    in Island Melanesia. Language 84(4).
                                    710-759 <br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Reesink, G., Singer, R., & Dunn,
                                    M. (2009). Explaining the linguistic
                                    diversity of Sahul using population
                                    models. PLoS Biology, 7(11),
                                    e1000241.
                                    doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.10002<wbr
                                      class="">41<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Reesink, Ger & Michael Dunn
                                    (2012) Systematic typological
                                    comparison as a tool for
                                    investigating language history. in
                                    Nicholas Evans and Marian Klamer
                                    (eds) Language Documentation &
                                    Conservation Special Publication No.
                                    5 Melanesian Languages on the Edge
                                    of Asia: Challenges for the 21st
                                    Century. pp. 34–71</div>
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                                                      class="">Australia<br
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                                                      Co-chair of Public
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                                                      style="font-size:9pt"
                                                      class="">Board of
                                                      the </span><span
style="font-size:9pt" class="">International Olympiad of Linguistics</span></div>
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                                                    class=""><a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
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                                                      href="http://www.ioling.org/"
                                                      target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ioling.org">www.ioling.org</a></a><br
                                                      class="">
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style="font-size:9pt" class="">Blogger at Humans Who Read Grammars</span></font><br
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style="font-size:12px" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          class="m_5279137942271857238moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://humans-who-read/" target="_blank">http://humans-who-read</a>-grammar<wbr
                                                          class="">s.blogspot.<br
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                                                class=""><span
                                                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"
                                                  class="">Dear
                                                  typologists,</span><br
                                                  class="">
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                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">What
                                      are interesting grammatical
                                      typological features for capturing
                                      the diversity of Oceania? I sent
                                      this message earlier to the
                                      mailing list for pacific
                                      linguistics, but I thought I'd try
                                      here as well since I didn't get
                                      any response there yet.</p>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">I
                                      work with a grammatical survey of
                                      the world's languages, Grambank,
                                      and I'm also personally interested
                                      in Oceania in particular for my
                                      PhD project. I've been doing some
                                      thinking as to what features would
                                      be interesting to cover to more
                                      accurately capture the grammatical
                                      diversity of Oceania in
                                      particular, besides the feature
                                      set that we already have for the
                                      world-sample.</p>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">One
                                      guide are the features that
                                      Reesink, Dunn et al used in their
                                      publications on Sahul and
                                      Melanesia (see attachments and
                                      references listed below).  They've
                                      taken in input from a lot of
                                      previous literature and
                                      commentary, so it's a good set.</p>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">Besides
                                      those, do you have other
                                      suggestions?</p>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">From
                                      a rather Samoan-centric
                                      perspective, I'd be inclined to
                                      add features like these:</p>
                                    <ul class="">
                                      <li class="">Is there a "neutral"
                                        choice in attributive
                                        possession, i.e. not
                                        alienable/inalienable,
                                        dominant/subordinate?</li>
                                      <li class="">Can the agent be
                                        expressed as the possessor of
                                        the verb instead of encoded in
                                        the more canonical
                                        ergative/nominative manner?</li>
                                      <li class="">Can TA markers be
                                        entirely dropped in main
                                        clauses?</li>
                                      <li class="">Is number of absolute
                                        arguments expressed by
                                        reduplication on the verb?<br
                                          class="">
                                      </li>
                                    </ul>
                                    <p
                                      class="m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">Clearly
                                      these need further refinement, I
                                      just wanted to give some examples.
                                      Looking forward to more
                                      suggestions!</p>
                                    <div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
                                      0.0001pt;" class=""><font class=""
                                        face="arial, helvetica,
                                        sans-serif" size="2"><b class="">Tōfā
                                          soifua,<br class="">
                                        </b></font><b class=""><font
                                          class="" face="arial,
                                          helvetica, sans-serif"
                                          size="2">Hedvig Skirgård</font></b></div>
                                    <b class=""><br class="">
                                      References:<br class="">
                                    </b>Dunn, Michael, Angela Terrill,
                                    Ger Reesink, Robert A. Foley &
                                    Stephen C. Levinson. 2005.
                                    Structural phylogenetics and the
                                    reconstruction of ancient language
                                    history. Science 309. 2072–2075. <br
                                      class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Dunn, Michael, Robert A. Foley,
                                    Stephen C. Levinson, Ger Reesink
                                    & Angela Terrill. 2007.
                                    Statistical reasoning in the
                                    evaluation of typological diversity
                                    in Island Melanesia. Oceanic
                                    Linguistics 46(2). 388-403. <br
                                      class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Dunn, Michael, Stephen C. Levinson,
                                    Eva Lindström, Ger Reesink, &
                                    Angela Terrill. 2008. Structural
                                    phylogeny in historical linguistics:
                                    Methodological explorations applied
                                    in Island Melanesia. Language 84(4).
                                    710-759 <br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Reesink, G., Singer, R., & Dunn,
                                    M. (2009). Explaining the linguistic
                                    diversity of Sahul using population
                                    models. PLoS Biology, 7(11),
                                    e1000241.
                                    doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.10002<wbr
                                      class="">41<br class="">
                                    <br class="">
                                    Reesink, Ger & Michael Dunn
                                    (2012) Systematic typological
                                    comparison as a tool for
                                    investigating language history. in
                                    Nicholas Evans and Marian Klamer
                                    (eds) Language Documentation &
                                    Conservation Special Publication No.
                                    5 Melanesian Languages on the Edge
                                    of Asia: Challenges for the 21st
                                    Century. pp. 34–71</div>
                                  <div class=""><br class="">
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                                                        class="">
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                                                        style="color:rgb(196,89,17)"
                                                        class="">The
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                                                        Diversity</span></span></div>
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                                                      Centre of
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                                                      class="">School of
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                                                      and Language<br
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href="http://humans-who-read/" target="_blank">http://humans-who-read</a>-grammar<wbr
                                                          class="">s.blogspot.<br
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                        <pre class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_5279137942271857238moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.<wbr class="">org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><span class="HOEnZb"><font class="" color="#888888">
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    <pre class="m_5279137942271857238moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
David Gil

Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany

Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_5279137942271857238moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+49%203641%20686834" value="+493641686834" target="_blank" class="">+49-3641686834</a>
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+62%20812-8116-2816" value="+6281281162816" target="_blank" class="">+62-81281162816</a>

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______________________________<wbr class="">_________________

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_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</div></blockquote></div>
<div class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px;"><div class=""><div class="">Ian Maddieson</div><div class="">
</div><div class="">Department of Linguistics</div><div class="">University of New Mexico</div><div class="">MSC03-2130</div><div class="">Albuquerque NM 87131-0001</div><div class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
David Gil

Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany

Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816

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