<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 5, 2017, at 10:10 AM, Mark Donohue <<a href="mailto:mark@donohue.cc" class="">mark@donohue.cc</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Since it's come up, I can also refer people to:<br class=""><br class=""><p class=""><strong class="">Donohue, Mark</strong>. 2010. Dental discrepancies and the sound of Proto-Austronesian. In Bethwyn Evans, ed., <em class="">Discovering History through Language: papers in honour of Malcolm Ross</em>: 271-287. Canberra: Pacific Linguistics 605. (<a href="http://papuan.linguistics.anu.edu.au/Donohue/downloads/Donohue_2010_Dentals.pdf" class="">PDF</a>, 3.7MB)</p>-Mark<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 April 2017 at 17:45, David Gil <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
Ian is quite right in pointing out that d/t place-of-articulation
asymmetry is under-reported: I could offer my own native language
Hebrew as an example of a relatively well-described language in
which such an asymmetry exists but — to the best of my knowledge —
has not been previously described in the literature.<br class="">
<br class="">
According to the map by Donohue et al (2012) map, most cases of d/t
place-of-articulation asymmetry occur almost exclusively in two
large regions, one encompassing much of equatorial Africa, the
second consisting of the Mekong-<br class="">
Mamberamo area plus spillover into eastern parts of South Asia,
Taiwan, and<br class="">
Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands and Vanuatu.<br class="">
<br class="">
What's particularly interesting for the history of the
Mekong-Mamberamo area is that d/t place-of-articulation asymmetry,
while common in the Austronesian languages of Indonesia, is (well,
so far at least) unattested in the Philippines. This suggests a
scenario in which the Austronesian languages spreading south from
Taiwan through the Philippines into the Indonesian archipelago
originally didn't have it, but then picked it up (along with other
Mekong-Mamberamo features) from the now-extinct non-Austronesian
languages of the Indonesian archipelago.<br class="">
<br class="">
David<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Donohue, Mark, Rebecca Hetherington & James McElvenny. 2012.
World Phonotactics Database. Canberra: Australian National
University. http: //<a href="http://phonotactics.anu.edu.au/" target="_blank" class="">phonotactics.anu.edu.au</a>.<div class=""><div class="h5"><br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="m_3918735511230240989moz-cite-prefix">On 05/04/2017 13:48, Ian Maddieson
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
One feature David mentions is “d/t place-of-articulation
asymmetry” — I assume this refers to
<div class="">the observation that a voiced coronal plosive in a
language without multiple coronal place</div>
<div class="">contrasts may have a more retracted place of
articulation than a voiceless counterpart. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This is observed in quite a few areas around the
world (and could be more frequent if we</div>
<div class="">had better data on the phonetics of more languages),
so this not might be a particularly strong</div>
<div class="">areal marker. A few examples are Kisi and Bowiri in
West Africa, Wapishana in South America </div>
<div class="">and Sui in China.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ian</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Apr 4, 2017, at 21:24, Hedvig Skirgård <<a href="mailto:hedvig.skirgard@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""></a><a class="m_3918735511230240989moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hedvig.skirgard@gmail.com" target="_blank">hedvig.skirgard@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="m_3918735511230240989Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Hi David,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That's an excellent idea! Thanks. Some of
these I know from reading other papers of yours, and
some already overlap with Reesink, Dunn et al and with
Grambank. Would it be possible however to get some
more detailed definition on them? For example, what
constituted "optional TAM marking"? What did it take
for a language to be classified as "yes" for that
feature?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">/Hedvig</div>
</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On 5 April 2017 at 13:14, David
Gil <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class=""></a><a class="m_3918735511230240989moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> Hi
Hedvig,<br class="">
<br class="">
in Gil (2015) I define a Mekong-Mamberamo area
extending from Mainland Southeast Asia through the
Indonesian archipelago and into western new
Guinea, characterized by 17 features which I've
listed below. In the final section of the paper,
I briefly discuss the extent to which these 17
features "overflow" from the Mekong-Mamberamo area
into Oceania, due to the spread of Austronesian
languages from New Guinea into the Pacific. So
you may wish to follow up on this and examine the
extent to which the languages of Oceania exhibit
these features.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best,<br class="">
<br class="">
David<br class="">
<br class=""><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238ReferencesT" style="margin-left:27.35pt"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Gil, David (2015) "The
Mekong-Mamberamo Linguistic Area", in N.J.
Enfield and B. Comrie eds., <i class="">Languages
of Mainland Southeast Asia, The State of the
Art</i>, Pacific Linguistics, DeGruyter
Mouton, Berlin, 266-355.</span></p>
<br class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""></span><i class="">17 Mekong-Mamberamo Properties</i></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>1.<span class=""> </span>passing gesture</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>2.<span class=""> </span>repeated dental
clicks expressing amazement</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>3.<span class=""> </span>conventionalized
greeting with 'where'</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>4.<span class=""> </span>'eye day' > 'sun'
lexicalization</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>5.<span class=""> </span>d/t
place-of-articulation asymmetry</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>6.<span class=""> </span>numeral classifiers</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>7.<span class=""> </span>verby adjectives</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>8.<span class=""> </span>basic SVO word order</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>9.<span class=""> </span>iamitive perfects</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>10.<span class=""> </span>'give' causatives</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>11.<span class=""> </span>low differentiation of
adnominal attributive constructions</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>12.<span class=""> </span>weakly developed
grammatical voice</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>13.<span class=""> </span>isolating word
structure</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>14.<span class=""> </span>short words</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>15.<span class=""> </span>low
grammatical-morpheme density</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>16.<span class=""> </span>optional thematic-role
flagging</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class=""> </span>17.<span class=""> </span>optional TAM marking</span></p>
<div class="">
<div class="m_3918735511230240989h5"> <br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238moz-cite-prefix">On
05/04/2017 10:21, Hedvig Skirgård wrote:<br class="">
</div>
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</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="m_3918735511230240989h5">
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<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small" class="">Dear
typologists,</span><br class="">
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<div class=""><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">What
are interesting grammatical
typological features for capturing
the diversity of Oceania? I sent
this message earlier to the
mailing list for pacific
linguistics, but I thought I'd try
here as well since I didn't get
any response there yet.</p><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">I
work with a grammatical survey of
the world's languages, Grambank,
and I'm also personally interested
in Oceania in particular for my
PhD project. I've been doing some
thinking as to what features would
be interesting to cover to more
accurately capture the grammatical
diversity of Oceania in
particular, besides the feature
set that we already have for the
world-sample.</p><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">One
guide are the features that
Reesink, Dunn et al used in their
publications on Sahul and
Melanesia (see attachments and
references listed below). They've
taken in input from a lot of
previous literature and
commentary, so it's a good set.</p><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">Besides
those, do you have other
suggestions?</p><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">From
a rather Samoan-centric
perspective, I'd be inclined to
add features like these:</p>
<ul class="">
<li class="">Is there a "neutral"
choice in attributive
possession, i.e. not
alienable/inalienable,
dominant/subordinate?</li>
<li class="">Can the agent be
expressed as the possessor of
the verb instead of encoded in
the more canonical
ergative/nominative manner?</li>
<li class="">Can TA markers be
entirely dropped in main
clauses?</li>
<li class="">Is number of absolute
arguments expressed by
reduplication on the verb?<br class="">
</li>
</ul><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">Clearly
these need further refinement, I
just wanted to give some examples.
Looking forward to more
suggestions!</p>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt" class=""><font face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif" size="2" class=""><b class="">Tōfā
soifua,<br class="">
</b></font><b class=""><font face="arial,
helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" class="">Hedvig Skirgård</font></b></div>
<b class=""><br class="">
References:<br class="">
</b>Dunn, Michael, Angela Terrill,
Ger Reesink, Robert A. Foley &
Stephen C. Levinson. 2005.
Structural phylogenetics and the
reconstruction of ancient language
history. Science 309. 2072–2075. <br class="">
<br class="">
Dunn, Michael, Robert A. Foley,
Stephen C. Levinson, Ger Reesink
& Angela Terrill. 2007.
Statistical reasoning in the
evaluation of typological diversity
in Island Melanesia. Oceanic
Linguistics 46(2). 388-403. <br class="">
<br class="">
Dunn, Michael, Stephen C. Levinson,
Eva Lindström, Ger Reesink, &
Angela Terrill. 2008. Structural
phylogeny in historical linguistics:
Methodological explorations applied
in Island Melanesia. Language 84(4).
710-759 <br class="">
<br class="">
Reesink, G., Singer, R., & Dunn,
M. (2009). Explaining the linguistic
diversity of Sahul using population
models. PLoS Biology, 7(11),
e1000241.
doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.10002<wbr class="">41<br class="">
<br class="">
Reesink, Ger & Michael Dunn
(2012) Systematic typological
comparison as a tool for
investigating language history. in
Nicholas Evans and Marian Klamer
(eds) Language Documentation &
Conservation Special Publication No.
5 Melanesian Languages on the Edge
of Asia: Challenges for the 21st
Century. pp. 34–71</div>
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<div class=""><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">What
are interesting grammatical
typological features for capturing
the diversity of Oceania? I sent
this message earlier to the
mailing list for pacific
linguistics, but I thought I'd try
here as well since I didn't get
any response there yet.</p><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">I
work with a grammatical survey of
the world's languages, Grambank,
and I'm also personally interested
in Oceania in particular for my
PhD project. I've been doing some
thinking as to what features would
be interesting to cover to more
accurately capture the grammatical
diversity of Oceania in
particular, besides the feature
set that we already have for the
world-sample.</p><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">One
guide are the features that
Reesink, Dunn et al used in their
publications on Sahul and
Melanesia (see attachments and
references listed below). They've
taken in input from a lot of
previous literature and
commentary, so it's a good set.</p><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">Besides
those, do you have other
suggestions?</p><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">From
a rather Samoan-centric
perspective, I'd be inclined to
add features like these:</p>
<ul class="">
<li class="">Is there a "neutral"
choice in attributive
possession, i.e. not
alienable/inalienable,
dominant/subordinate?</li>
<li class="">Can the agent be
expressed as the possessor of
the verb instead of encoded in
the more canonical
ergative/nominative manner?</li>
<li class="">Can TA markers be
entirely dropped in main
clauses?</li>
<li class="">Is number of absolute
arguments expressed by
reduplication on the verb?<br class="">
</li>
</ul><p class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238m_1554752280181880654gmail-p1">Clearly
these need further refinement, I
just wanted to give some examples.
Looking forward to more
suggestions!</p>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt" class=""><font face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif" size="2" class=""><b class="">Tōfā
soifua,<br class="">
</b></font><b class=""><font face="arial,
helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" class="">Hedvig Skirgård</font></b></div>
<b class=""><br class="">
References:<br class="">
</b>Dunn, Michael, Angela Terrill,
Ger Reesink, Robert A. Foley &
Stephen C. Levinson. 2005.
Structural phylogenetics and the
reconstruction of ancient language
history. Science 309. 2072–2075. <br class="">
<br class="">
Dunn, Michael, Robert A. Foley,
Stephen C. Levinson, Ger Reesink
& Angela Terrill. 2007.
Statistical reasoning in the
evaluation of typological diversity
in Island Melanesia. Oceanic
Linguistics 46(2). 388-403. <br class="">
<br class="">
Dunn, Michael, Stephen C. Levinson,
Eva Lindström, Ger Reesink, &
Angela Terrill. 2008. Structural
phylogeny in historical linguistics:
Methodological explorations applied
in Island Melanesia. Language 84(4).
710-759 <br class="">
<br class="">
Reesink, G., Singer, R., & Dunn,
M. (2009). Explaining the linguistic
diversity of Sahul using population
models. PLoS Biology, 7(11),
e1000241.
doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.10002<wbr class="">41<br class="">
<br class="">
Reesink, Ger & Michael Dunn
(2012) Systematic typological
comparison as a tool for
investigating language history. in
Nicholas Evans and Marian Klamer
(eds) Language Documentation &
Conservation Special Publication No.
5 Melanesian Languages on the Edge
of Asia: Challenges for the 21st
Century. pp. 34–71</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<pre class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="m_3918735511230240989m_5279137942271857238moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): <a href="tel:+49%203641%20686834" value="+493641686834" target="_blank" class="">+49-3641686834</a>
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</div><div class="">Department of Linguistics</div><div class="">University of New Mexico</div><div class="">MSC03-2130</div><div class="">Albuquerque NM 87131-0001</div><div class="">
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<pre class="m_3918735511230240989moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="m_3918735511230240989moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): <a href="tel:+49%203641%20686834" value="+493641686834" target="_blank" class="">+49-3641686834</a>
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