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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Arial;color: #333333;font-size: 10pt;">Thank you very much Randy, especially for the last paragraph.
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<div>I would add that as someone who has had to relocate across continents several times in the last couple of years for employment reasons, the paper versions of any 'journals' that I used to own are currently stored in carton boxes 20,000km+ from where I
live. </div>
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<div>(And the few books I still have on my shelves or borrow from my library, I can't read because I am allergic to dust.)</div>
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<div id="divRpF559578" style="direction: ltr;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp [lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org] on behalf of Randy John LaPolla (Prof) [RandyLaPolla@ntu.edu.sg]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 July 2017 12:45<br>
<b>To:</b> Plank<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] papercopy LT<br>
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<div>A brief anecdote in response to Jianming’s post and Frans’ comment about us being “creatures of yesterday’s habit” (quite true!), I had an eye-opening experience last year when two fourth-year undergraduate students were in my office for consultation: <br class="">
<div>At one point in the discussion I took out a journal issue to refer to an article, and the students commented, “Oh, so that is what a journal is!”. As everything is done electronically in our university, and there is no display of paper copies of journals
in the library, in the four years of their education at the university the students had never seen a paper journal, only pdfs of individual articles. <br class="">
<font color="#5856d6" class=""><br class="">
</font>So that generation (unlike those of us with many yesterdays and their associated habits) may be much more open to alternative ways of dissemination of ideas. But it is us more established folks who can help move things in a better direction: as we are
not in the promotion and tenure rat race and don’t need to worry about publishing metrics and whatnot, we can lead the way to making alternative forms of dissemination viable and respected.<br class="">
<font color="#5856d6" class=""><br class="">
</font>Randy<br class="">
<span class="" style="color:rgb(34,34,34); font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; background-color:white">-----</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="orphans:2; widows:2; font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(34,34,34); background-color:white"><b class="">Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA</b> （羅</span><span class="" style="orphans:2; widows:2; color:rgb(34,34,34); background-color:white; font-size:13px"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Song">仁地</font></span><span class="" style="orphans:2; widows:2; font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(34,34,34); background-color:white">）|
Professor of Linguistics and Chinese | Nanyang Technological University</span><br class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:15px"><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="" style="background-color:white">HSS-03-45, 14 Nanyang Drive, Singapore
637332</span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans:2; widows:2; color:rgb(34,34,34); font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px"><span class="" style="background-color:white"> | </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans:2; widows:2; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:15px"><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="" style="background-color:white">Tel:
(65) 6592-1825 GMT+8h | Fax: (65) 6795-6525 | <a href="http://randylapolla.net/" class="" target="_blank">
http://randylapolla.net/</a></span></span></span><br class="">
<span class="" style="background-color:white; color:rgb(34,34,34); font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; orphans:2; widows:2">Most recent book:</span><br class="">
<a href="https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324" class="" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif; orphans:2; widows:2" target="_blank">https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324</a><br class="">
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<div class="">On 5 Jul 2017, at 4:52 AM, Frans Plank <<a href="mailto:frans.plank@ling-phil.ox.ac.uk" class="" target="_blank">frans.plank@ling-phil.ox.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""></blockquote>
<font color="#00afcd" class=""><br class="">
</font>I'm not sure whether the recent Editorial Report in LT 20(3) (my last; "un-published", but here is a quote) helps Martin at least with diagnosing our predicament.<br class="">
<font color="#00afcd" class=""><br class="">
</font><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px; white-space:pre"></span><span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">[...] Scholarship does not perforce</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:16px">NEED </span><span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">journals. You can have an idea, make a discovery, defend an analysis,</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">develop an argument and discuss it with friends and colleagues, correspond</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">about it, privately or in your blog, report it at scholarly meetings, write it up and</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">put it on your own internet platform. The hearing you thus get in your discipline</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">may be of a magnitude most journal publications cannot hope to rival: only</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">think of the audiences conference presentations sometimes attract even in our</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">own modest typological circles. You may get acknowledged and even receive</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">formal recognition – except, unless you are published, the record you are on is</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">that of individual or collective memory. The way we scholars are, creatures of</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">yesterday’s habit, we would much rather see our precious words preserved in</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">black and white. But the last word on whether circulation in cold print, or</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:Times; font-size:17px">eternal storage in one or another repository, is called for is really the reader’s.</span><br class="">
<font color="#00afcd" class=""><br class="">
</font>(I quote out of context; the context is that in debates about publishing models it would be good to know more about readers.) <br class="">
<font color="#00afcd" class=""><br class="">
</font>The GUARDIAN article Martin refers to offers another (though perhaps related) diagnosis, implying that it was not so much our "lack of organization", but, ulitmately, our vanity that enabled Robert Maxwell and his copycats at Elsevier to fundamentally
change the ways of scholarly publishing. <br class="">
<font color="#00afcd" class=""><br class="">
</font>Diagnosis first, therapy second. (If vanity is involved, there are many who have considered it a therapy-resistant folly.)<br class="">
<font color="#00afcd" class=""><br class="">
</font>Frans<br class="">
<font color="#00afcd" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
</font>On 04 Jul 2017, at 21:35, Martin Haspelmath <<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" class="" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<font color="#00afcd" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
</font>_______________________________________________<br class="">
Lingtyp mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
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<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">On 04.07.17 19:36, Wu Jianming wrote:</span><br class="">
<font color="#12c00e" face="LucidaGrande" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14px"><br class="">
</span></font><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Good ideas (or bad ideas) can be published easily these days (e.g. you can easily</span> <a href="https://www.frank-m-richter.de/freescienceblog/2017/02/24/what-should-what-do-i-do-with-my-draft-paper-hide-it-upload-to-academia-or-upload-to-zenodo/" class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px" target="_blank">upload
your paper to Academia or Zenodo</a><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">, at no cost), but for professional recognition, one needs a well-organized social mechanism.</span><br class="">
<font color="#12c00e" face="LucidaGrande" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14px"><br class="">
</span></font><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Scholars have not been well-organized in the past: As Stephen Buranyi explains in a fascinating recent</span> <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/27/profitable-business-scientific-publishing-bad-for-science" class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px" target="_blank">Guardian
article</a><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">, over decades they left the initiative to commercial companies, who own the titles and who make huge profits (or waste our money because of inefficient organization). If standard business
criteria were employed, then publishing a scholarly article would cost between</span> <a href="http://bjoern.brembs.net/2016/12/should-public-institutions-not-be-choosing-the-lowest-responsible-bidder/" class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px" target="_blank">$100
and $500</a><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">, not $5000 as is currently the case.</span><br class="">
<font color="#12c00e" face="LucidaGrande" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14px"><br class="">
</span></font><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">So how do we get out of the current predicament? I don't know, but we first need to recognize that we are in a disastrous situation.</span> <br class="">
<font color="#12c00e" face="LucidaGrande" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14px"><br class="">
</span></font><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Maybe we could have a typology journal that is published with a model similar to that of Glossa (with optional fees,</span> <a href="https://www.openlibhums.org/journals/" class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px" target="_blank">supported
by OLH</a><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">). Maybe we could find a university that gives "</span><a href="https://www.frank-m-richter.de/freescienceblog/2017/02/21/we-dont-need-open-access-but-scholar-owned-publication-brands/" class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px" target="_blank">tenure</a><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">"
to a typology journal, the way most universities give tenure to researchers. Any ALT members out there with connections to librarians who want to secure their future by moving into publishing?</span><br class="">
<font color="#12c00e" face="LucidaGrande" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14px"><br class="">
</span></font><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">In any event, using ALT's money for "publication" (in fact, un-publication) behind a paywall is not sustainable in the longer run, so we desperately need new good ideas.</span><br class="">
<font color="#12c00e" face="LucidaGrande" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14px"><br class="">
</span></font><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Best,</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Martin</span><br class="">
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Dear colleagues,<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""></blockquote>
...<br class="">
I am wondering whether there is another way to spread good ideas freely and efficiently, which, nontheless, is equally recognized by the authority, just like journals.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
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<span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">-- </span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Martin Haspelmath (</span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">)</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Kahlaische Strasse 10 </span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Leipzig University </span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Nikolaistrasse 6-10</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">D-04109 Leipzig </span><br class="">
<font color="#12c00e" face="monospace" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14px; white-space:pre"><br class="">
</span></font><span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">_______________________________________________</span><br class="">
<span class="" style="font-family:LucidaGrande; font-size:14px">Lingtyp mailing list</span><br class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
D-07745 Jena
&
IPF 141199
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