<div dir="ltr">One factor no-one has mentioned so far is politeness (and deference).<div><br></div><div>In Sasak (Lombok, Indonesia) there are two registers, alus (roughly) 'polite' and jamaq (roughly) 'plain'. In jamaq the same pattern is found as for other Austronesian languages mentioned already, ie. adiq or ariq for 'younger sibling' and kakaq for 'older sibling'. However, in alus there are terms that distinguish both marital status and gender (for unmarried) but only for senior siblings -- there is no alus for junior kin:</div><div><br></div><div>boling (alus) 'older married sibling'</div><div><br></div><div>beli (alus) 'older unmarried brother'</div><div><br></div><div>mbok (alus) 'older unmarried sister'</div><div><br></div><div>There is also the general term semeton (in alus sanak) used for all siblings, and for close friends, that is also applied to foster relationships: semeton angkat 'foster sibling'. Gender and seniority are also not distinguished in in-law terms where there is just ipar 'sibling-in-law'.</div><div><br></div><div>Just to remind typologists that languages exist in the contexts of linguistic and cultural ideologies and practices whose functioning may lead them to posit '(putative) universals' when squinting at apparent form-meaning pairs.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Peter</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 19 July 2017 at 17:21, Kyla Quinn <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kyla.quinn@anu.edu.au" target="_blank">kyla.quinn@anu.edu.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>Okay, so looking through the parabank kin data we have so far....<br><br></div>For Alex' question....out of 300 odd languages there are 82 that don't distinguish gender for younger siblings. There are 52 that don't distinguish gender for older siblings. There is a 51 language cross over between these two sets. Most of these are Austronesian and North American languages, with a few Australian and others scattered through.<br><br></div>For Siva's question...<br><br></div>There are some languages in the data set that exhibit this pattern but as a cross pattern, so if you are male you distinguish for older brother and younger brother but no age distinction for sisters and vice versa. There are three languages that exhibit precisely what you've asked and there are several other variations.<br><br></div>Happy to answer any other questions based on our data!!<br><br></div>Cheers,<br><br></div>Kyla<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Siva Kalyan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.com" target="_blank">sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.<wbr>com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">On a slight tangent, are there languages where male siblings are distinguished for age but female siblings aren't (or vice versa)?<span class="m_7962751573926172373HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><div>
<br class="m_7962751573926172373m_-2139698397864532570Apple-interchange-newline"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;display:inline!important;float:none">Siva</span>
</div></font></span><div><div class="m_7962751573926172373h5">
<br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 19 Jul 2017, at 6:50 pm, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_7962751573926172373m_-2139698397864532570Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Matt beat me to it on Malay/Indonesian! I would just like to add
that while many (most?) varieties that I am familiar with work the
way Matt describes, some exhibit an asymmetry in which elder
siblings are distinguished for gender while younger ones are not.
This pattern is also evident in closely-related Minangkabau:<br>
<br>
adiak - 'younger sibling'<br>
uda - 'elder brother'<br>
uni - 'elder sister'<br>
<br>
And I suspect that it is common in other languages of the region.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_7962751573926172373m_-2139698397864532570moz-cite-prefix">On 19/07/2017 10:40, Matthew Carroll
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Guys
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What about Indonesian/Malay? kakak/adik for elder/younger
sibling respectively. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Matt</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Hedvig
Skirgård <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hedvig.skirgard@gmail.com" target="_blank">hedvig.skirgard@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Dear LINGTYP,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Does anyone know of a language that has a distinction
in the kinship system for age of referent
(younger/older) without also having a distinction for
gender of referent? For example, a language that marks
siblings as being younger or older to ego without
reference to being sister or brother.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The hypothesis is that this doesn't happen/is very
rare. We'd like to know if you've come across any
examples of this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm asking for my friend Alex (cc:ed) who is not on
the list. Please direct any responses or comments to
her.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
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<pre class="m_7962751573926172373m_-2139698397864532570moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="m_7962751573926172373m_-2139698397864532570moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Prof Peter K. Austin<div>Marit Rausing Chair in Field Linguistics</div><div>Foundation Editor, EL Publishing</div><div><div>Department of Linguistics, SOAS<br>Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square<br>London WC1H 0XG<br>United Kingdom<br><br>Homepage: <a href="https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff30592.php" target="_blank">https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff30592.php</a></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Homepage: </span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><a href="https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff30592.php" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" target="_blank">https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff30592.php</a></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Publishing: </span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><a href="http://elpublishing.org/" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" target="_blank">http://elpublishing.org/</a></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Training: </span><a href="http://el-training.org/" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" target="_blank">http://el-training.org</a></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Blog: </span><a href="http://el-blog.org/" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" target="_blank">http://el-blog.org</a></div></div><div>Humanities Commons: <a href="https://hcommons.org/members/pkaustin/" target="_blank">https://hcommons.org/members/pkaustin/</a></div><div>Academia: <a href="https://soas.academia.edu/PeterAustin" rel="nofollow" style="color:rgb(59,89,152);text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,'lucida grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:12.8800001144409px" target="_blank">https://soas.academia.edu/PeterAustin</a></div><div>ResearchGate: <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Austin2" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Austin2</a></div><div>ResearcherID: <span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;white-space:nowrap"><a href="http://www.researcherid.com/rid/P-5066-2014" target="_blank">http://www.researcherid.com/rid/P-5066-2014</a></span></div><div>ORCID: <a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-3180-0524" target="_blank">http://orcid.org/0000-0002-3180-0524</a></div><div>Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/peterkaustin" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/peterkaustin</a></div><div>Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pkaustin" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/pkaustin</a></div><div><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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