<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal">Hello,</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">Many thanks to Bernard Comrie, Seino van Breugel, and Martin Haspelmath for their responses to my questions, which I’ve summarized below.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">First, I asked about adjective placement in languages where possession is marked by simple juxtaposition. Bernard Comrie provided the following example from Egyptian Arabic (found in T.F. Mitchell. Colloquial Arabic: The living language of Egypt. London, 1962: English Universities Press, p.49.):</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black;text-indent:0.5in"> rubAAT gazma 9AsmAr</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black"> lacing (<a href="http://M.SG">M.SG</a>) shoe.pair (SG.F) <a href="http://black.M.SG">black.M.SG</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black"> 'the black laces of the shoes'</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black"> rubAAT gazma sAmrA</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black"> lacing (<a href="http://M.SG">M.SG</a>) shoe.pair (SG.F) <a href="http://black.F.SG">black.F.SG</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black"> 'the laces of the black shoes'</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black">These examples demonstrate that an adjective may modify a possessum in such constructions, even if it is not adjacent to it.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Second, I asked if there were possessive phrases of the form</span><span style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> "the [the cat-GEN] paw"</span> <span style="color:black">in languages with modifier-like possessives. Dr. Comrie gave the following example from Ancient Greek, which illustrates exactly this pattern (from </span><span style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">William W. Goodwin, A Greek grammar. New edition. London, 1894: Macmillan & Co, section 1085</span>)<span style="color:black">:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:0.5in;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">he: toû patròs oikía</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> the.F.SG.NOM the.M.SG.GEN father(M).SG.GEN house(F)Sg.NOM</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> ‘the father's house'</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">Seino van Breugel referred me to <span style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Section 6.4 (pp.106-9) of his 2014 publication, <i>A grammar of Atong</i> (Leiden, Boston: Brill.), which shows examples of juxtaposed nouns with possible possessive interpretation.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Martin Haspelmath recommended his forthcoming article, “Explaining alienability contrasts in adpossessive constructions: Predictability vs. iconicity” (in </span><i>Zeitschrift für Sprachwissenschaft </i>2017; 36(2): 193–231), which provides many examples of languages with juxtaposition-style possessive constructions, which are a good potential source of examples for those interested.</p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p><p class="MsoNormal">Elizabeth Nielsen</p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Elizabeth K Nielsen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ekayen@uw.edu" target="_blank">ekayen@uw.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal"><span style="color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10.5pt">Hello,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I'm currently working on extending the LinGO Grammar Matrix, which is a system that allows linguists to jumpstart the creation of an implemented HPSG grammar through a questionnaire interface (see <a href="http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1969044" target="_blank">Bender et al. 2010</a>). I’m working on extending the Grammar Matrix to cover adnominal possession. A couple of the analyses I’m working with right now would have typological implications which I’d appreciate input on.</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">First are cases of possession expressed via simple juxtaposition, without any possessive morphemes, e.g.:</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> cat paw</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> 'cat’s paw’</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The analysis for this construction that I'm currently using would preclude constructions such as the following, where you can put a modifier on the left edge and have it interpreted as the modifier of the possessum:</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> little cat paw</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> 'cat’s little paw’ (rather than ‘the paw of the little cat”)</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Does anyone know of a language where these constructions do occur?</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Second, I have developed a working analysis for languages like Italian that have possessive modifiers -- constructions where a possessed noun can appear with both a possessor and a determiner:</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> la mia casa</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> the my house</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> ‘my house’</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">My current analysis for possessive modifiers would allow the possessor noun to be a full NP, including determiners, etc. For example, using English lexical items to demonstrate, my current analysis would allow sentences like the following:</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> the [the cat-GEN] paw</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> ‘the cat’s paw’</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Are there in fact examples of languages with possessive modifiers that allow comparable constructions? Or are possessive modifiers in such languages not full NPs?</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Many thanks,</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Elizabeth Nielsen</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">University of Washington</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">MS in Computational Linguistics</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;font-size:12.8px;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></p></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>