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<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>A brief comment on the standards for quantitative approaches to
typology: I don't think anyone would disagree that
coding-procedures need to be maximally transparent, explicitly
justified, and adequately illustrated. I also think it's extremely
important to minimize subjective effects in annotation practice -
in general more annotators are better than just one, etc. <br>
</p>
<p>But what also needs to be stressed is ensuring the full
accessibility and accountability of the raw data itself - in
effect allowing for replication of the study by other scholars,
who are free to opt for, e.g. different coding decisions (which
will likely lead to different results). That is actually long-term
the best way of assessing the strengths and weaknesses of any
coding procedure.<br>
</p>
<p>So: if the data are out there, with unrestricted access ("open
science"), then the issue of coding procedures becomes less
pivotal. <br>
</p>
<p>I would would therefore support recommendations for maximizing
data accountability, accessibility, and replicability, to be a
part of ALT-guidelines, and considered them as criteria for
evaluating quality (e.g. in reviewing publications, or nominations
for awards etc.).</p>
<p>best</p>
<p>Geoff<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.11.2017 um 23:33 schrieb Dryer,
Matthew:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Volker,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with what you say about the need to
have clear operational definitions for one’s comparative
concepts, but I don’t understand the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">"To what extent do you consider the
operationalizations valid, with respect to the definition of
the tertium comparationis/comparative concept?"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This might make sense if one believes in
crosslinguistic categories, but I don’t understand what it
could mean applied to comparative concepts. It seems to imply
that there is a set of comparative concepts out there that it
is our job to discover and identify the properties of. But on
my understanding, comparative concepts are not things that
exist. Rather, they are simply notions that are defined for
the purposes of a particular typological study. What exists if
a continuous multi-dimensional space and the comparative
concept is a partially arbitrary definition of a region within
that continuous multi-dimenstional space. From that
perspective, I don’t understand what it would mean for the
operationalization to be valid.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew</p>
<!--EndFragment--></div>
<div><br>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lingtyp <<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
on behalf of Volker Gast <<a
href="mailto:volker.gast@uni-jena.de" moz-do-not-send="true">volker.gast@uni-jena.de</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Sunday, November
19, 2017 at 7:57 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>William Croft <<a
href="mailto:wcroft@unm.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">wcroft@unm.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Linguistic Typology
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Lingtyp]
Empirical standards in typology<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks Bill. Note that I didn't say that there is no
awareness, or no </div>
<div>discussion, of research methods. What I said is that
there are no commonly </div>
<div>accepted standards that we could apply, for instance,
when evaluating </div>
<div>journal articles, dissertations or research proposals.
I assume that </div>
<div>everyone applies their own, personal standards.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So here are some thoughts about standards in
quantitative linguistic </div>
<div>typology:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With regard to coding/annotation, we're dealing with a
question of </div>
<div>reliability, which ultimately concerns replicability.
Let's assume that </div>
<div>self-annotation cannot be avoided for financial
reasons. What about </div>
<div>establishing a standard saying that, for instance, when
you submit a </div>
<div>quantitative-typological paper to LT you have to
provide the data in such </div>
<div>a way that the coding decisions are made sufficiently
transparent for </div>
<div>readers to see if they can go along with the argument?
And if you fail to </div>
<div>do so your submission will not even be taken into
consideration? This </div>
<div>could include, in addition to the data itself, a
description of the coding </div>
<div>process and operational tests for the levels of each
variable.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The other questions that have been discussed are mainly
questions of </div>
<div>validity (though the distinction has been made using
other terms in this </div>
<div>discussion). From my point of view the most important
insight from the </div>
<div>distinction between comparative concepts and
descriptive categories is </div>
<div>that comparative concepts, our tertia comparationis,
are analyst's </div>
<div>("observer-made") concepts, not participant's concepts.
That means that we </div>
<div>need to think about operationalizations, as you (Bill)
write. So there are </div>
<div>minimally two questions (and I'm not saying anything
new here): (i) how </div>
<div>can we define comparative concepts, and (ii) how can
they be </div>
<div>operationalized. If you define comparative concepts
(e.g. 'word') in terms </div>
<div>of other comparative concepts (e.g. 'vowel harmony'),
that doesn't really </div>
<div>help, obviously. What you're really doing is replace
one tertium </div>
<div>comparationis with a list of tertia (and if the
operationalization is </div>
<div>existential quantification over a set of comparative
concepts, I have a </div>
<div>hard time seeing how this can lead to valid results).
That's why I </div>
<div>think that functional definitions are better suited as
the basis of </div>
<div>crosslinguistic comparison (to the extent that
crosslinguistic comparison </div>
<div>situates itself in the functional paradigm, but there
seems to be </div>
<div>consensus that this is actually the case). They need to
be independent of </div>
<div>the actual operationalizations.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Once you have a proper definition of your comparative
concept, you can </div>
<div>think about operationalizations; and obviously, you
have to make sure that </div>
<div>the operationalizations, which 'measure out' the
individual linguistic </div>
<div>systems, do in fact measure what you think you are
measuring; they have to </div>
<div>match the (independent) definition of your tertium
comparationis. As we </div>
<div>have seen, it's very hard to establish something like a
common sense here. </div>
<div>My view is that minimally, definitions (of
tertia/comparative concepts) </div>
<div>and operationalizations should be kept apart, and that
authors should be </div>
<div>explicit about both -- which, I'm aware, they often
are, as you (Bill) </div>
<div>write, though different terms are used. My point is
that this should not </div>
<div>just be regarded as something that is done by 'most'
typologists, it </div>
<div>should become a standard. Specifically, the degree of
explicitness with </div>
<div>which the operationalizations are explained, and their
plausiblity with </div>
<div>respect to the definition of the tertium comparationis
(which is </div>
<div>subjective), should be evaluated in the review. This
could be implemented </div>
<div>by sending LT-reviewers a list of questions including
something like: "Is </div>
<div>the tertium comparationis clearly defined?", "Are the
operationalizations </div>
<div>made explicit?", "To what extent do you consider the
operationalizations </div>
<div>valid, with respect to the definition of the tertium </div>
<div>comparationis/comparative concept?"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Such criteria could also be integrated into ALT-awards,
to encourage young </div>
<div>scholars to apply them.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Volker</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* * *</div>
<div>Prof. V. Gast</div>
<div><a href="http://www.uni-jena.de/%7Emu65qev"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.uni-jena.de/~mu65qev</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Sat, 18 Nov 2017, William Croft wrote:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"
style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5;
MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>Dear Volker,</div>
<div> I think most typologists are aware that (i)
defining categories for coding is very hard, especially
across languages -- hence all the discussions about
comparative concepts on Lingtyp</div>
<div>(some of which have subsequently been published in
some form in Linguistic Typology), of which this
discussion of ‘word’ is only the latest; and (ii) that
typologists must usually</div>
<div>operationalize those criteria and make the
operationalizations as explicit as possible. I think
that (i) and (ii) are fairly common practice in
typology, despite my previous comments</div>
<div>about essentialism and methodological opportunism
(cherry-picking of criteria).</div>
<div> On the other hand, your point about mono-annotator
annotation is well taken. Nevertheless, the operational
factor is this one:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> And I'm not saying that mono-annotator
projects are useless, sometimes you just don't have the
manpower for multi-annotator projects </div>
<div> I have recently been working on computational
projects that involve annotation, and even there, where
there is a lot more large-scale funding than in
typology, it is very expensive to</div>
<div>hire and train annotators, and in the end there are
maybe two annotators and a third person acting as
adjudicator for a pilot annotation at most. (In fact,
most of the effort in</div>
<div>computational linguistics is towards training
classifiers to do the annotation automatically on large
corpora, and in my small experience those are often
worse than mono-annotator</div>
<div>annotations.)</div>
<div> In typology, there is virtually no funding for
any sort of multi-annotator annotation whatsoever. This
is especially true for graduate students doing
typological dissertations, but</div>
<div>also for faculty doing typological research. I would
guess that many typologists are aware that
multi-annotator annotation is preferable, but
impractical. But we don’t normally add a</div>
<div>statement like “We are aware that engaging multiple
annotators would improve the reliability of our coding
and hence of the results of our crosslinguistic study;
but due to lack of</div>
<div>funding, all annotation of the data was performed by
the author.” Perhaps we typologists should starting
adding such statements.</div>
<div>Best wishes,</div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> On Nov 18, 2017, at 6:32 AM, Volker Gast <<a
href="mailto:volker.gast@uni-jena.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">volker.gast@uni-jena.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div>Hi Johanna, even if I could do this diplomatically, I
wouldn't, and I think it wouldn't make much sense, as my
point is not about specific publications or authors;
it's about</div>
<div>common practice (and common practice is reflected in
the publications of 'major authorities'). But I think I
get your point; so let me be a bit more specific.</div>
<div>A lot of (quantitative) typological work relies on
'coding': Information is extracted from grammars and
transformed into a data matrix. Now, it is common
practice (and I'm not</div>
<div>excluding myself here) for the coding to be done by
the analyst him/herself, and by no one else. But that's
considered bad practice in other fields. Ideally, you'd
need a team of</div>
<div>annotators coding independently, on the basis of
annotation guidelines. The team codes a sample,
determines inter-annotator agreement, and
adjusts/specifies the annotation</div>
<div>guidelines where necessary. This is done until the
inter-annotator agreement is satisfactory. And then you
can start with the actual coding. Ideally, the analyst
shouldn't be</div>
<div>involved in the coding process, as her annotation
decisions might be (subconsciously) influenced by her
working hypotheses. (Note that this might be a viable
solution to the</div>
<div>question of how comparative concepts can reliably be
defined, for a given study; you can just measure how
much inter-annotator variation there is; whether or not
the</div>
<div>operationalizations make sense is a different
question, of course, one of validity. When you use a set
of criteria disjunctively, the question is what exactly
your</div>
<div>operationalizations are intended to represent.)</div>
<div>Note that I'm not saying that there are no
multi-annotator projects in typology (I'm actually
involved in two such projects, though one of them is
actually a comparative corpus</div>
<div>linguistics project); but as far as I can tell, it is
'basically' comon practice for analysts to code the data
themselves. And I'm not saying that mono-annotator
projects are</div>
<div>useless, sometimes you just don't have the manpower
for multi-annotator projects (and one of the
multi-annotator projects I'm involved in was really
painful; but it was instructive</div>
<div>to see that even for categories that we thought we
had defined rather clearly, inter-annotator agreement
was rather low in some cases). But as I said earlier, it
would be nice to</div>
<div>have some standards or at least general guidelines
for coding typological data. Minimally, I think, the
data should be published, along with at least some
information on the</div>
<div>operational tests that were applied, even if done by
a single annotator.</div>
<div>I hope this clarifies my (too general) remarks in my
previous post.</div>
<div>Volker</div>
<div>Am 18.11.2017 um 13:27 schrieb Johanna NICHOLS:</div>
<div> Volker, </div>
<div>If there's a way to do this diplomatically, could you
cite an example or two of "important publications by
major authorities of the field where these criteria are
simply not</div>
<div>applied"? In linguistics we don't have as much
technical comment on publications as some other fields
do, and maybe we should. In journals where I see
technical comments</div>
<div>sections those comments are refereed, edited, brief,
and focused on factual and methodological matters, i.e.
about empirical fundamentals and not debate on
theoretical</div>
<div>frameworks.</div>
<div>If there's no way to do it diplomatically, never
mind.</div>
<div>Johanna</div>
<div>On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Volker Gast <<a
href="mailto:volker.gast@uni-jena.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">volker.gast@uni-jena.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Matthew -- are you saying that "one cannot
rule out disjunctively defined comparative concept"
because this is what you did?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I am not convinced by "disjunctive comparative
concepts". Now, that's nothing for you to worry about --
I'm just one reader (actually, audience of your</div>
<div> ALT/2015-talk) who doesn't buy your
conclusions because he doesn't accept your
operationalizations.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> But if we want "to talk TO each other (not
only PAST each other)", as Martin writes, it would be
good to have what other fields call "standards of
empirical</div>
<div> research". We have copied a lot of statistical
methods from fields such as the social sciences and
biology. I think it would also be beneficial to take a
look at</div>
<div> their standards at the "lower" level -- for
instances, wrt how data is gathered, processed and
classified, how hypotheses are operationalized, etc., to
make sure</div>
<div> that the results obtained by somebody are also
accepted by others (just think of the 5%-threshold for
statistical significance, which is just a matter of</div>
<div> convention).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I'm aware that this type of remark is annoying
for some of you. I teach both corpus linguistics and
typology. In corpus linguistics our students deal with
very</div>
<div> basic questions of empirical research -- like
the traditional 'quality criteria' -- e.g. (external,
internal) validity, objectivity, reliability -- and
then, in</div>
<div> typology, we read important publications by
major authorities of the field where these criteria are
simply not applied, sometimes the statistics are faulty,
and</div>
<div> students do enquire about this. What can I
say? There are no research standards in typology? There
is an ongoing discussion about</div>
<div> "arbitrary/subjective/random/disjunctive
comparative concepts" on the Lingtype-list? I'm afraid
it wouldn't convince them. What I say is that typology
still has</div>
<div> some way to go to in terms of research
methods. There are many non-trivial problems, as we have
seen in various discussions on this list, and we should
be aware</div>
<div> that linguistic data is sui generis (for
instance, I think we can't adopt just any
method/software package from genetics). But we shouldn't
use "authority" as a</div>
<div> criterion in our methodological choices, and
the choices shouldn't be made in such a way to
legitimize our own research 'ex post'.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Volker</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Am 18.11.2017 um 07:36 schrieb Dryer, Matthew:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> With respect to Martin’s comment</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>“It is my impression that such ortho-affixes (= forms
written as affixes) are perhaps even more common than
“phonologically weak” ortho-affixes, but this is an</div>
<div>empirical question (in his 2015 ALT abstract, Matthew
mentions 248 languages with weak affixes, but 308
languages with only affixes of the Tauya type,
apparently</div>
<div>confirming my impression).”</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I realize that this is a reasonable inference from my
abstract, but one often has to simplify things for the
purposes of an abstract. My definition of a weak</div>
<div>affix is very narrow and many if not most affixes
that are not weak affixes by my narrow criteria can
still be shown to be attached phonologically by broader</div>
<div>criteria. Furthermore, I also treat a morpheme as an
affix for the purposes of this study if it triggers
phonologically conditioned allomorphy in stems it</div>
<div>attaches to and it is clear from Macdonald’s
description of Tauya that some of the ortho-affixes
Martin mentions do trigger phonologically conditioned
allomorphy</div>
<div>in stems they attach to (pp 54, 72, 74, 79).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I counted an affix as weak for the purposes of the
study in my 2015 ALT talk only if the description of it
in a grammar makes clear that it is nonsyllabic (or has</div>
<div>nonsyllabic allomorphs) or that it exhibits
phonologically allomorphy or triggers phonologically
conditioned allomorphy in adjacent stems. But in many
grammars,</div>
<div>it is only in the discussion of phonology that it
becomes clear that a given affix exhibits phonologically
conditioned allomorphy or that it triggers</div>
<div>phonologically conditioned allomorphy in adjacent
stems. But because I wanted to include a large sample of
languages and because it is often unclear from</div>
<div>discussions of phonology whether particular rules
apply to particular affixes or stems such affixes
combine with, I adopted the procedure of not consulting
the</div>
<div>discussions of phonology in classifying ortho-affixes
as weak. This made sense for my 2015 ALT talk since I
was examining whether there is a suffixing preference</div>
<div>and restricting attention to weak affixes so defined
applies equally to prefixes and suffixes. For a
different type of typological study, this would have
been</div>
<div>inappropriate. This illustrates how comparative
concepts are specific to particular typological studies.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Furthermore, there are other factors that I did not
examine that are relevant to whether a given ortho-affix
is attached phonologically. There may be clear</div>
<div>evidence from allophonic rules, but it is often very
unclear from grammatical descriptions whether particular
allophonic rules apply to particular ortho-affixes</div>
<div>or stems to which ortho-affixes are attached. And
even if the information is there in the grammatical
description, it may take a lot of work to see whether
they</div>
<div>apply to a particular affix. For example, careful
examination of Macdonald’s description of Tauya implies
that the benefactive ortho-affix -pe that Martin</div>
<div>mentions is attached phonologically, since she gives
examples of phonetic representations of forms containing
this morpheme where it takes the form [-be] after</div>
<div>/m/ ([tembe] on page 54).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>There might also be evidence from stress, but still
be unclear how stress is assigned to forms including
ortho-affixes. For example, Tauya has word-final stress,</div>
<div>but it is not clear from Macdonald’s description
whether this means that nouns bearing the ortho-affixes
that Martin mentions take stress on the ortho-affix.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Some of you may have noticed that what I say here
contradicts what I said in my earlier email about
comparative concepts needing to be exhaustive. The
comparative</div>
<div>concept I used in my 2015 ALT talk was not exhaustive
and was in fact disjunctive. Since that seemed
appropriate for that study, this suggests that one
cannot</div>
<div>rule out disjunctively defined comparative concepts.
I sympathize with Martin’s objecting to disjunctive
comparative concepts as a way to continue to use</div>
<div>confusing and ambiguous terms and I agree that there
is something odd about arbitrary disjunctive comparative
concepts, but it is a mistake to simply rule out</div>
<div>disjunctive comparative concepts.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I should note finally that while it is clear that the
ortho-affixes that Martin mentions are attached
phonologically, they are actually not affixes by either
his</div>
<div>criteria or mine since they are clitics that attach
to postnominal modifiers. [Martin has written about
problems with the use of the term “clitic”. I am in</div>
<div>complete agreement with him about this. But I use the
term here and elsewhere in my research (including my
upcoming ALT talk on the encliticization preference) as</div>
<div>a label for a comparative concept for grammatical
morphemes that are phonologically attached but attach to
stems of more than one stem class.]</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Matthew</div>
<div>From: Lingtyp <<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
on behalf of Martin Haspelmath <<a
href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>></div>
<div>Date: Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 7:14 PM</div>
<div>To: "<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>></div>
<div>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] wordhood: bonded vs. bound</div>
<div>Matthew Dryer thinks that wordhood is generally
understood by grammar authors in terms of bondedness (=
phonological weakness, as shown by nonsyllabicity and</div>
<div>phono-conditioned allomorphy), not in terms of
boundness (= inability to occur in isolation). </div>
<div>I don’t know if this is true, but Matthew actually
recognizes that grammars often describe grammatical
markers as “affixes” even when they do not show the two</div>
<div>“phonological weakness” (or bondedness) features. </div>
<div>For example, Tauya (a language of New Guinea) is said
to have (syllabic) case suffixes, but these never show
any allomorphy, e.g. </div>
<div>fena’a-ni [woman-ERG]</div>
<div>na-pe [you-BEN]</div>
<div>wate-’usa [house-INESS]</div>
<div>Aresa-nani [Aresa-ALL]</div>
<div>Tauya-sami [Tauya-ABL] (MacDonald 1990: 119-126) </div>
<div>It is my impression that such ortho-affixes (= forms
written as affixes) are perhaps even more common than
“phonologically weak” ortho-affixes, but this is an</div>
<div>empirical question (in his 2015 ALT abstract, Matthew
mentions 248 languages with weak affixes, but 308
languages with only affixes of the Tauya type,
apparently</div>
<div>confirming my impression). </div>
<div>For this reason, I have suggested that the
stereotypical “affix” notion should perhaps be captured
in terms of boundness together with single-root-class</div>
<div>adjacency. Since the Tauya case-markers attach only
to nouns, they count as affixes; by contrast, if a bound
role marker attaches to both nouns (English “for</div>
<div>children”) and adjectives (“for older children”) as
well as to other elements (“for many children”), we do
not regard it as an affix (but as a preposition), even</div>
<div>if it is bound (= does not occur in isolation;
English "for" does not). </div>
<div>Matthew quite rightly points out that this notion of
boundness (which goes back at least to Bloomfield 1933:
§10.1) implies that most function words in English</div>
<div>are bound, and in fact most function words in most
languages are bound – but this is exactly what we want,
I feel, because the best way to define a “function</div>
<div>word” is as a bound element that is not an affix.
Linguists often think of function words (or “functional
categories”) as defined semantically, but it is actually</div>
<div>very hard to say what is the semantic(-pragmatic)
difference between a plural marker and a word like
“several”, between a dual marker and the word “two”,
between</div>
<div>a past-tense marker and the expression “in the past”,
or between a comitative marker and the word “accompany”.
It seems to me that these distinctions are best</div>
<div>characterized in terms of boundness, i.e. inability
to occur in isolation. </div>
<div>It may be true that occurrence in isolation is a
feature of an element that is not easy to elicit from
speakers, but in actual language use, there are a very</div>
<div>large number of very short utterances, so at least
positive evidence for free status (=non-bound status) is
not difficult to obtain. </div>
<div>In any event, it seems clear to me that some key
concepts of grammatical typology such as “flag” (= bound
role marker on a nominal) and “person index” (= bound</div>
<div>person marker, generally on a verb) require the
Bloomfieldian boundness notion, and that these concepts
are much easier to work with in typology than the</div>
<div>traditional stereotypical notions of “case”,
“adposition”, “agreement marker”, and “pronominal
clitic”. (For bound person forms, this was a major
lesson of Anna</div>
<div>Siewierska’s 2004 book “Person”.) </div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Martin</div>
<div>On 14.11.17 07:02, Dryer, Matthew wrote:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I have a number of problems with Martin’s
proposal:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>"Here’s a proposal for defining a notion of “affix”,
in such a way that the results do not go too much
against our intuitions or stereotypes:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>An affix is a bound form that always occurs together
with a root of the same root-class and is never
separated from the root by a free form or a non-affixal</div>
<div>bound form."</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If one examines the notion of “bound” from his 2013
paper, I believe it implies a comparative concept of
affix that differs greatly from what most linguists</div>
<div>(at last most non-generative linguists) understand by
the term. That’s not a problem for it as a comparative
concept, but it is a comparative concept that</div>
<div>differs considerably from the stereotype.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Martin’s definition of “free and “bound” from his
2013 paper is as follows:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>"But distinguishing in a general way between bound
elements and free elements is quite straightforward,
because there is a single criterion: Free forms are</div>
<div>forms that can occur on their own, i.e. in a complete
(possibly elliptical) utterance (Bloomfield 1933: 160).
This criterion correlates very highly with the</div>
<div>criterion of contrastive use: Only free forms can be
used contrastively."</div>
<div> </div>
<div>First, I find the notion of complete utterance
ambiguous. Does it mean utterances in normal speech or
does it include metalinguistic uses (like “What is the</div>
<div>last word in the sentence “Who are you going with”?
Answer “with”). I would assume that it does not include
such metalinguistic uses. But then many if not</div>
<div>most so-called function words in English would count
as bound since they cannot be used as complete
utterances. Perhaps other speakers of English would have</div>
<div>different intuitions, but if so that only indicates
the lack of clarity in the notion. Furthermore, for many
function words in English, I am not sure how to</div>
<div>judge whether they can occur alone as utterances.
Many such so-called function words would appear to count
as bound by Martin’s definition, though they</div>
<div>would not count as affixes since they lack other
properties in his definition of “affix”.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Second, many languages have grammatical morphemes
that must occur adjacent to an open class word but which
behave as separate words phonologically. These</div>
<div>would all apparently count as affixes by Martin’s
definition. Again, I have no problem with this as a
comparative concept, only that it means his notion of</div>
<div>affix deviates considerably from the stereotype.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Third, Martin says that his criterion “correlates
very highly with the criterion of contrastive use”. But
by my intuitions, the ability to occur as complete</div>
<div>utterances does not correlate closely with the
criterion of contrastive use, since most so-called
function words CAN occur with contrastive use (such as
can</div>
<div>in this sentence!), as can some morphemes that are
conventionally treated as affixes, like un- in “I’m not
happy, I’m UNhappy”. Of course, Martin might</div>
<div>argue that un- is more like so-called function words
and less like morphemes conventionally treated as
affixes. But the fact remains that un- is easily the</div>
<div>locus of contrast but cannot be used as a complete
utterance. I thus see no evidence of a close correlation
between the ability to occur as a complete</div>
<div>utterance and the ability to be the locus of
contrast.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Finally, it is my experience that languages differ in
their conventions regarding what can be a complete
utterance. Imagine two closely related languages</div>
<div>that differ in their grammatical rules governing what
is a complete utterance. By Martin’s definition, there
might be a large number of morphemes that count</div>
<div>as separate words in one language but as affixes in
the other language. This strikes me as odd. It seems odd
to have a criterion for what is a word and what</div>
<div>is an affix so dependent on the grammatical rules in
the language for what constitutes a complete utterance.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Matthew</div>
<div>From: Lingtyp <<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
on behalf of Martin Haspelmath <<a
href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>></div>
<div>Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017 at 10:47 PM</div>
<div>To: "<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>></div>
<div>Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] wordhood</div>
<div>Mattis List and Balthasar Bickel rightly emphasize
that “word” is not a Platonic entity (a natural kind)
that exists in advance of language learning or</div>
<div>linguistic analysis – few linguists would disagree
here, not even generativists (who otherwise liberally
assume natural-kind catgeories).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>But I think many linguists still ACT AS IF there were
such a natural kind, because the “word” notion is a
crucial ingredient to a number of other notions</div>
<div>that linguists use routinely – e.g. “gender”, which
is typically defined in terms of “agreement” (which is
defined in terms of inflectional marking on</div>
<div>targets; and inflection is defined in terms of
“word”).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So is it possible to define a comparative concept
‘word’ that applies to all languages equally, and that
accords reasonably with our stereotypes? Note that</div>
<div>I didn’t deny this in my 2011 paper, I just said that
nobody had come up with a satisfactory definition (that
could be used, for instance, in defining</div>
<div>“gender” or “polysynthesis”). So I’ll be happy to
contribute to a discussion on how to make progress on
defining “word”.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Larry Hyman notes that other notions like “syllable”
and “sentence” are also problematic in that they also
“leak”. However, I think it is important to</div>
<div>distinguish two situations of “slipperiness”:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(1) “Leakage” of definitions due to vague defining
notions</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(2) Incoherence of definitions due to the use of
different criteria in different languages</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The first can be addressed by tightening the defining
notions, but the second is fatal.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>To take up Östen Dahl’s example of the “family”
notion: In one culture, a family might be said to be a
set of minimally three living people consisting of</div>
<div>two adults (regardless of gender) living in a
romantic relationship plus all their descendants. In
another culture, a family might be defined as a married</div>
<div>couple consisting of a man and a woman plus all their
living direct ancestors, all their (great) uncles and
(great) aunts, and all the descendants of all of</div>
<div>these.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>With two family concepts as different as these, it is
obviously not very interesting to ask general
cross-cultural questions about “families” (e.g. “How</div>
<div>often do all family members have meals together?”).
So the use of different criteria for different cultures
is fatal here.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What I find worrying is that linguists often seem to
accept incoherent definitions of comparative concepts
(this was emphasized especially in my 2015 paper</div>
<div>on defining vs. diagnosing categories). Different
diagnostics in different languages would not be fatal if
“word” were a Platonic (natural-kind) concept,</div>
<div>but if we are not born with a “word” category,
typologists need to use the SAME criteria for all
languages.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So here’s a proposal for defining a notion of “simple
morphosyntactic word”:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>A simple morphosyntactic word is a form that consists
of (minimally) a root, plus any affixes.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Here’s a proposal for defining a notion of “affix”,
in such a way that the results do not go too much
against our intuitions or stereotypes:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>An affix is a bound form that always occurs together
with a root of the same root-class and is never
separated from the root by a free form or a non-affixal</div>
<div>bound form.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>These definitions make use of the notions of “root”
and “root-class” (defined in Haspelmath 2012) and
“bound (form)” vs. “free (form)” (defined in</div>
<div>Haspelmath 2013). All these show leakage as in (1)
above, but they are equally applicable to all languages,
so they are not incoherent. (I thank Harald</div>
<div>Hammarström for a helpful discussion that helped me
to come up with the above definitions, which I had not
envisaged in 2011.)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(What I don’t know at the moment is how to relate
“simple morphosyntactic word” to “morphosyntactic word”
in general, because I cannot distinguish compounds</div>
<div>from phrases comparatively; and I don’t know what to
do with “phonological word”.)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Crucially, the definitions above make use of a number
of basic concepts that apply to ALL languages in the
SAME way. David Gil’s proposal, to measure “bond</div>
<div>strength” by means of a range of language-particular
phenomena, falls short of this requirement (as already
hinted by Eitan Grossman). Note that the problem</div>
<div>I have with David’s proposal is not that it provides
no categorical contrasts (recall my acceptance of
vagueness in (1) above), but that there is no way of</div>
<div>telling which phenomena should count as measuring
bond strength.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>David’s approach resembles Keenan’s (1976) attempt at
defining “subject” (perhaps not by accident, because Ed
Keenan was David’s PhD supervisor), but I have</div>
<div>a similar objection to Keenan: If different criteria
are used for different languages, how do we know that we
are measuring the same phenomenon across</div>
<div>languages? Measuring X by means of Y makes sense only
if we know independently that X and Y are very highly
correlated. But do we know this, for subjects,</div>
<div>or for bond strength?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Martin</div>
<div> </div>
<div>-- </div>
<div>Martin Haspelmath (<a
href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)</div>
<div>Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History</div>
<div>Kahlaische Strasse 10 </div>
<div>D-07745 Jena </div>
<div>&</div>
<div>Leipzig University </div>
<div>IPF 141199</div>
<div>Nikolaistrasse 6-10</div>
<div>D-04109 Leipzig </div>
<div>-- </div>
<div>Martin Haspelmath (<a
href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)</div>
<div>Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History</div>
<div>Kahlaische Strasse 10 </div>
<div>D-07745 Jena </div>
<div>&</div>
<div>Leipzig University </div>
<div>IPF 141199</div>
<div>Nikolaistrasse 6-10</div>
<div>D-04109 Leipzig </div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Prof. Dr. Geoffrey Haig
Lehrstuhl Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
Universität Bamberg
96045 Bamberg
Tel. ++49 (0)951 863 2490
Admin. ++49 (0)951 863 2491</pre>
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