<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">While I have nothing to add to the substance of this discussion, let me point out that adopting a loosely-worded code of conduct leaves open the option of adding provisions later (if enough people agree that this is a good idea), whereas I suspect it is much harder to remove provisions from a code of conduct that has already been adopted.</div><div class=""><div class="">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none;" class="">Siva</span>
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 21 Nov 2017, at 8:37 pm, Völkel, Dr. Svenja <<a href="mailto:svenja.voelkel@uni-mainz.de" class="">svenja.voelkel@uni-mainz.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Dear all,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">in case, we really need a code, Giorgio Arcadia's summarized version based on Martin Haspelmath) is a proposal that I would support.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Some remarks:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">- It is a reasonable guideline to minimize all kinds of disrespect (culture-specific offenses, gender-specific offenses, etc) - it generates awareness but it surely does not prevent personal offenses to happen, unintentionally or deliberately.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">- It corresponds to the basic behavior that anthropologists as well as field linguists are taught. More specific versions are hardly possible in view of the numerous culture-specific practices and perceptions.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">- In my view, it is sad that it needs to be written down as official code, as these basics of respect should guide inter-personal behaviour anyhow.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Best,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Svenja Völkel</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></div></div><hr tabindex="-1" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline-block; width: 629.15625px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></span><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><b class="">Von:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> im Auftrag von Giorgio Francesco Arcodia <<a href="mailto:giorgio.arcodia@unimib.it" class="">giorgio.arcodia@unimib.it</a>><br class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dienstag, 21. November 2017 08:13:45<br class=""><b class="">An:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Maia Ponsonnet<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Lingtyp] ALT: code of conduct</font><div class=""> </div></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">In reply to Hedvig: Martin H. actually did propose an alternative, I'll paste it here:<br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class="">Conference participants will:</div><ul style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;" class=""><li class="">treat fellow participants, students, volunteers, and any other members of the public with respect, dignity, impartiality, courtesy and sensitivity;</li><li class="">maintain a cooperative and collaborative approach to inter-personal relationships;</li><li class="">respect the privacy of others;</li><li class="">ensure that they do not become involved in or encourage discrimination against or harassment of participants, students, volunteers, or any other members of the public.</li></ul></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div>I think this is a very reasonable proposal, and I would support it.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Best,</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Giorgio</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On 21 Nov 2017 01:48, "Maia Ponsonnet" <<a href="mailto:maia.ponsonnet@uwa.edu.au" class="">maia.ponsonnet@uwa.edu.au</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution" class=""><blockquote class="quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div id="m_4125609339669504572divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Dear all, </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">I am writing to rectify the gender imbalance on this list, where most conversations including this one seem to be male dominated ;-). </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">I am a woman and those of you who know me (even just as FB friends for that matter) know that I care and am vocal about gender (im)balance.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">This is precisely why myself and my colleague Gwen Hyslop, who I am just discussing the matter with, <b class="">are voting NO to the code of conduct</b>. </div><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;" class="">While we agree that there is a need for awareness, the "trend" imposed by such actions can only, in our opinion, be detrimental to interpersonal relationships and to gender balance in particular. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div>The reasons are multiple and complex, and I am not prepared to discuss them on this list. I will be happy to discuss them in private (and preferably face to face) if appropriate.<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""></p><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""> </p><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">With best regards, </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Maïa & Gwen</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div id="m_4125609339669504572Signature" class=""><div id="m_4125609339669504572divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;" class=""><div id="m_4125609339669504572divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;" class=""><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont; font-size: 16px;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class="">Dr Maïa Ponsonnet</span><br style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class="">Senior Lecturer in Linguistics</span><br style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class="">ARC Discovery Early Career Researcher Fellow</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont; font-size: 16px;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont; font-size: 16px;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class=""></span><span style="font-size: small;" class="">Social Sciences Building, Room 2.47</span><br style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class="">Faculty of Arts, Business, Law and Education</span><br style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class="">The University of Western Australia</span><br style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class="">35 Stirling Hwy, </span><span style="font-size: small;" class="">Perth, WA (6009), </span><span style="font-size: small;" class="">Australia</span><br style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;" class=""><span style="font-size: small;" class="">P. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+61%208%206488%202870" value="+61864882870" target="_blank" class="">+61 (0) 8 6488 2870</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>- </span><span style="font-size: small;" class="">M. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+61%20468%20571%20030" value="+61468571030" target="_blank" class="">+61 (0) 468 571 030</a></span></div><span style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, serif, EmojiFont; font-size: small;" class=""></span></div><div id="m_4125609339669504572divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, NotoColorEmoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Android Emoji, EmojiSymbols" class=""></font><br class=""><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif, EmojiFont, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols;" class=""></p></div></div></div><br class=""><br class=""><div style="" class=""><hr style="display: inline-block; width: 617.109375px;" class=""><div id="m_4125609339669504572divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.<wbr class="">linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, 21 November 2017 8:34 AM<div class="quoted-text"><br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.<wbr class="">org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Lingtyp] ALT: code of conduct</div></font><div class=""> </div></div><div class="m_4125609339669504572BodyFragment"><font size="2" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><div class="m_4125609339669504572PlainText"><div class="elided-text">Having said my bit I was hoping not to have to add to the discussion,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">but I feel the need to counter two lines of rhetoric that seem to have<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">emerged. (I do so without offering actual citations because I think it<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">is important to maintain a civilized conversation devoid of ad hominem<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">remarks.)<br class=""><br class="">First, I am uncomfortable with the implication that there is a job to be<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">done and that this is somehow being "derailed" by too much discussion. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">The debate is precisely on what should be done, what is ethical and what<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">is practical. If we're to invoke train metaphors, then I would counter<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">by saying that we must avoid being railroaded into one very specific way<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">of going about addressing the problem. Which leads into ...<br class=""><br class="">Secondly, and perhaps more cogently, I am very uncomfortable with the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">implication that people who support the code of ethics somehow take the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">issues more seriously than those who are opposed to it. I suspect most<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">ALT members would agree that we are in a gender-based conflict involving<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">multiple levels of aggression, coercion and violence, mostly if not<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">exclusively waged by men against women. And that we desperately need to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">do something about it. The debate is over the methods, and it is a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">legitimate debate. Just is it is possible to argue over the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">justification of the WWII carpet bombing of Dresden without being<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">accused of harbouring Nazi sympathies, so it should be possible to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">criticize the proposed ALT code of ethics without being suspected of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">lacking sympathy or understanding for the struggles that are faced by women.<br class=""><br class="">David<br class=""><br class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">David Gil<br class=""><br class="">Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<br class="">Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History<br class="">Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany<br class=""><br class="">Email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><br class="">Office Phone (Germany):<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+49%203641%20686834" value="+493641686834" target="_blank" class="">+49-3641686834</a><br class="">Mobile Phone (Indonesia):<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+62%20812-8116-2816" value="+6281281162816" target="_blank" class="">+62-81281162816</a><br class=""><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">Lingtyp mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.<wbr class="">org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" id="m_4125609339669504572LPlnk804701" target="_blank" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.<wbr class="">org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></div><div id="m_4125609339669504572LPBorder_GT_15112245952060.04464712756618994" style="margin-bottom: 20px; overflow: auto; width: 629.71875px; text-indent: 0px;" class=""><table id="m_4125609339669504572LPContainer_15112245952010.2727912164245292" cellspacing="0" style="width: 566.734375px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); overflow: auto; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; margin-top: 20px; border-top-width: 1px; border-top-style: dotted; border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dotted; border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200);" class=""><tbody class=""><tr valign="top" style="border-spacing: 0px;" class=""><td id="m_4125609339669504572TextCell_15112245952020.5760691254629664" colspan="2" style="vertical-align: top; padding: 0px; display: table-cell;" class=""><div id="m_4125609339669504572LPRemovePreviewContainer_15112245952030.59376499544081" class=""></div><div id="m_4125609339669504572LPTitle_15112245952030.05592072315850771" style="color: rgb(0, 120, 215); font-weight: 400; font-size: 21px; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_light, 'Segoe UI Light', 'Segoe WP Light', 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 21px;" class=""><a id="m_4125609339669504572LPUrlAnchor_15112245952030.8392308508001824" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;" class="">Lingtyp Info Page - Linguist List</a></div><div id="m_4125609339669504572LPMetadata_15112245952040.12243815679954495" style="margin: 10px 0px 16px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: 400; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_normal, 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 14px;" class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/" target="_blank" class="">listserv.linguistlist.org</a></div><div id="m_4125609339669504572LPDescription_15112245952050.4279891387103527" style="display: block; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-weight: 400; font-family: wf_segoe-ui_normal, 'Segoe UI', 'Segoe WP', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; max-height: 100px; overflow: hidden;" class="">To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Lingtyp Archives. Using Lingtyp: To post a message to all the list members, send email ...</div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><br class=""><br class=""></div></span></font></div></div></div></div><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">Lingtyp mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.<wbr class="">org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.<wbr class="">org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Lingtyp mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>