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<p>Dear Jussi,</p>
<p>It seems to me that your examples such 'without eating and drink'
are some kind of compound. I've found apparently parallel
constructions in Modern Aramaic dialects (Semitic)<span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">, such as</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Christian Urmi<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(1) ida akl-e</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> hand leg-PL</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> 'hands and legs'</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(2) ida akl-u</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> hand legs-his</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> 'his hands and legs'<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Note that ida 'hand' lacks plural inflection. The
plural inflection and the possessive suffix are only on the
final noun of the compound (in 2 the plural inflection is
concealed by the possessive suffix)</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Regarding degrammaticalization, some Neo-Aramaic
dialects exhibit a debonding of a copula clitic in certain
constructions. I am inclined to think that what is happening is
the attachment of the clitic to a zero pronominal or agreement
morpheme. This is supported by the fact that in other closely
related dialects the clitic is attached to an anaphoric pronoun
in the same position in the same construction, e.g.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Barwar</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Yosep --=ile xawr-i</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Yosep --=COP.3MS friend-my</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">'Yosep is my friend'</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Qaraqosh</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Yosep ahu=ile xor-i</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Yosep PRO.3MS=COP.3MS friend-my</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I would be very interested if anybody knows about
similar types of debonding in other languages . I am aware of
some cases where an original host has been reduced to zero by
attrition (e.g. and + 3 oblique clitic in Middle Persian > 3
oblique), but there is no evidence of attrition of a host in the
Barwar Neo-Aramaic construction.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Best wishes,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Geoffrey Khan<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/01/2018 18:34, Jussi Ylikoski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AM4PR05MB337758864DB969147BAFB4E889170@AM4PR05MB3377.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com">
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<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Dear colleagues,</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I would like to hear about possible
typological parallels to a little-studied morphological
(diachronic) feature in North Saami.</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I apologize for the lengthy introduction:</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Many of you may have heard about probably the
best known grammatical morpheme in North Saami,
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">haga</i> 'without',
a former abessive case suffix (-<i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">haga</i>) that has
degrammaticalized into a postposition and ultimately a
free adverb and a preposition. North Saami has a quite
fusional inflectional morphology, and derivational
morphology is quite fusional as well. However, there are
also a number of disyllabic suffixes that are by
definition much less fusional, and I have proposed that
one of the reasons for degrammaticalization – or at least
a morphological feature of debonding – may lie in the fact
that in a fusional language like North Saami, non-fusional
morphemes like -<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:
normal">haga</i> are prone to be perceived as words
(such as disyllabic adpositions) rather than as (otherwise
maximally monosyllabic) case markers.</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">What is interesting here is that I am aware
of as many as about a dozen other disyllabic suffixes that
are occasionally experiencing partly similar debonding in
North Saami. Apologizing for a little self-promotion, I am
referring to my recent paper on
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">haga</i> and a
partly similar instance of degrammaticalization, and quote
myself as follows:</span></p>
<blockquote>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">It may be added that in North Saami there
are a number of similar but considerably less
degrammaticalized morphemes that may occasionally
undergo debonding, namely conjunction reduction à la <i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
vuoiddas- ja ostonagaid</i> ‘stains of grease and
willow bark’ (30) and <i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
varra- ja guomonaga</i> ‘stained with blood and chyme’
(33). Such morphemes have been discussed in Ylikoski
(2009: 116–128, 200–201) where it is conjectured that
such phenomena could in principle be regarded as
tentative symptoms of a wholesale “degrammaticalization
drift” in North Saami; a situation in which somewhat
atypical disyllabic suffixes seem to represent an
intermediate stage on the way to a more clitic-like
status for many of the present-day suffixes. Examples
mentioned in Ylikoski (2009) include, among others, the
verb forms <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">hála-
ja čále-dettiin</i> [speak and write-<span
style="font-variant:small-caps">cvb.sim</span>] ‘when
speaking and writing’ and
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">bora- ja
juga-keahttá</i> [eat and drink-<span
style="font-variant:small-caps">cvb.neg</span>]
‘without eating and drinking’ instead of ordinary
converbs
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:
normal">háladettiin ja čáledettiin</i> and <i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
borakeahttá ja jugakeahttá</i> id., nouns like <i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
nuorra-ja olmmái-vuohta</i> [young and man-hood]
‘youth and manhood’ instead of nuorravuohta ja
olmmáivuohta and adjectives like
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:
normal">áhče- ja eatne-heapme</i> [father- and
mother-less] ‘fatherless and motherless’ instead of
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">áhčeheapme ja
eatneheapme</i>. In a way, situations in which such
morphemes stand out as quite atypical for affixes are
reminiscent of Norde’s (2001; 2009: 206–207) thoughts on
deflexion as impetus to degrammaticalization of
morphemes like English and Scandinavian <i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
s</i>-genitive and Irish <i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">muid</i> ‘we’.</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size: 9pt; line-height: 115%;
font-family: "Tahoma", sans-serif;"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<span style="font-size: 9pt;"></span>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Ylikoski,
Jussi. 2016. “Degrammaticalization in North Saami:
Development of adpositions, adverbs and a free lexical
noun from inflectional and derivational suffixes. </span><i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span
style="font-size: 9pt;">Finnisch-Ugrische
Mitteilungen</span></i><span style="font-size: 9pt;">
40: 113–173. Available at
</span><a
href="http://cc.oulu.fi/%7Ejylikosk/filer/fum40_ylikoski.pdf"
style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration:
underline;" id="LPlnk81304" previewremoved="true"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">http://cc.oulu.fi/~jylikosk/filer/fum40_ylikoski.pdf</span></a></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I wish to emphasize that most if not all the
inflectional and derivational suffixes I am referring to
go back to ancient Proto-Saami or even Proto-Uralic
suffixes. For example, unlike English -<i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">less</i> in
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">"father- and
motherless"</i>, the suffix -<i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">heapme</i> in
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">áhče- ja
eatne-heapme</i> [father- and mother-less] is regarded
as having an age-long past as a suffix only. In other
words, from a comparative Uralicist perspective, the above
examples are about as strange as "speak- and writing",
"eat- and drinking" or "grammati- and
degrammaticalization" in English.</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:
"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">My question:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> I wonder if there are many languages that
behave like North Saami in this respect? More precisely, I
would be especially interested in languages that have
experienced a similar "wholesale degrammaticalization
drift" or "debonding drift" in the sense that there are
many individual (originally) bound morphemes that have
turned out to be not necessarily that bound after all.</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Best regards,</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Jussi Ylikoski</span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p style="line-height: 115%; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman",
serif;">
<span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><a href="http://cc.oulu.fi/%7Ejylikosk/"
style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration:
underline;" id="LPlnk812348" previewremoved="true"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://cc.oulu.fi/~jylikosk/</a></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
</div>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Geoffrey Khan
Regius Professor of Hebrew
University of Cambridge
Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies
Sidgwick Avenue
Cambridge CB3 9DA
UK</pre>
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