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I wouldn't say that the Koyra Chiini form is "arguably" a relative
pronoun, because it's a question of definition, not of
argumentation. (People sometimes say that they "disagree" with
terminological choices, but I think the verbs "adopt" or "reject"
are better suited when it comes to talking about other people's
terminological choices.)<br>
<br>
As Matthew noted earlier, in the WALS chapter by Comrie &
Kuteva, the "relative pronoun strategy" is clearly defined as one
involving an element that can be flagged for its syntactic role ("
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charset=ISO-8859-1">
a clause-initial pronominal element [which] is case-marked (by case
or by an adposition) to indicate the role of the head noun within
the relative clause", <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wals.info/chapter/122">http://wals.info/chapter/122</a>).<br>
<br>
Likewise, in the APiCS chapter by Michaelis et al.,
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charset=ISO-8859-1">
<span class="c26">"a relative-clause marker is regarded as
a relative pronoun if it has different subject and object forms
..., or if it can be combined with an adposition</span>"
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://apics-online.info/parameters/92.chapter.html">http://apics-online.info/parameters/92.chapter.html</a>).<br>
<br>
Because of these authoritative uses, I would reject (but not argue
against) a terminological use (in typology) according to which
relative pronouns are said to include relativizers that vary for
("pronominal") features like gender and/or number but do not
indicate syntactic role. (And if there were an "IPA of
morphosyntax", as suggested <a
href="https://dlc.hypotheses.org/1000">here</a>, it should have
the same meaning as in the WALS and APiCS chapters.)<br>
<br>
Thus, from a typological point of view, the relativizers of Koyra
Chiini and Coast Tsimshian are clearly relative pronouns.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26.03.18 15:27, Dryer, Matthew
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In Koyra Chiini (Heath 1999: 192), the
relative word is arguably a relative pronoun since it can
occur with a postposition.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Coast Tsimshian has a construction which
could be analysed as involving a relative pronoun in that
relative clauses are marked with a word that varies for the
grammatical relation of the head in the relative clause,
<i>gu</i> if it is the A,<i> in</i> if it is the S or P
(Mulder 1994: 142).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"˚ø\/ì‚";
mso-bidi-font-family:"˚ø\/ì‚"">Heath, Jeffrey.
(1999)
<i>A grammar of Koyra Chiini: The Songhay of Timbuktu</i>.
Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"˚ø\/ì‚";
mso-bidi-font-family:"˚ø\/ì‚"">Mulder, Jean
Gail. (1994)
<i>Ergativity in Coast Tsimshian (Sm’algyax)</i>. Berkeley:
University of California Press.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"˚ø\/ì‚";
mso-bidi-font-family:"˚ø\/ì‚""> </span></p>
<span
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"ＭＳ
明朝";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-bidi-font-
family:"˚ø\/ì‚";
mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:JA;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">Matthew</span><!--EndFragment-->
</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Lingtyp <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
on behalf of Bernard Comrie <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:comrie@linguistics.ucsb.edu">comrie@linguistics.ucsb.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, March 26,
2018 at 3:40 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Lingtyp]
Relativization<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">Dear Jeff:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">Some thoughts on your post.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">The chapters in WALS are necessarily very
brief, so often it will be necessary to look at other
literature.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">As many people have noted, including me
back in an early publication on European-type relative
clauses (Comrie 1998: 79), the European-type relative
clause has recently (e.g. through colonialism) spread
through contact to languages outside Europe. These are
of course not independent instances of the development
of this kind of relative clause.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">I went into somewhat more detail on
possible independent candidates for European-type
relative clauses in Comrie (2006). If you compare this
article with WALS, please note that the publication
details are misleading; some points discussed in the
2006 article that came up during preparatory work on
WALS did not find their way into the final version of
WALS.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">Regarding your specific question on Acoma:
I'll need to check, as I don't have the relevant data
immediately to hand.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">Best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">Bernard</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">References</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB">Comrie, B. 1998.
</span>Rethinking the typology of relative clauses. <i
style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
Language Design</i> 1: 59-86.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Comrie, B. 2006. Syntactic typology:
just how exotic ARE European-type relative clauses? In
Ricardo Mairal and Juana Gil (eds.):
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Linguistic
Universals</i>, 130-154. Cambridge: Cambridge University
Press.<span style="mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"
lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2018/3/18 17:26, Jeff Siegel
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:E1F86A0B-849E-4394-AA62-5AF27103E75A@contoso.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-AU">Greetings:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-AU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">In
the description of relativization in WALS (features
122A and 123A), the relative pronoun strategy is
shown to stand out “as
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">being typically
European since it is not found in Indo-European
languages spoken outside Europe, and is exceptional
more generally outside Europe” (Comrie & Kuteva
2013). This strategy is defined as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">“</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">[T]he position relativized
is indicated inside the relative clause by means of
a clause-initial pronominal element, and this
pronominal element is case-marked (by case or by an
adposition) to indicate the role of the head noun
within the relative clause.” (Comrie & Kuteva
2013)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The
only language outside the European area shown to use
this strategy is Acoma, Keresan language of New
Mexico.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Could
anyone lead me to examples of the relative pronoun
strategy used in other languages outside Europe?
Also, could anyone provide such examples from Acoma
or related languages? (I can’t seem to find any in
the descriptions of Keresan languages that I have
examined.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Reference:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Bernard
Comrie, Tania Kuteva. 2013. Relativization on
Subjects. In: Dryer, Matthew S. & Haspelmath,
Martin (eds.).
<i>The World Atlas of Language Structures Online.</i> Leipzig:
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. <br>
(Available online at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wals.info/chapter/122">
http://wals.info/chapter/122</a>, Accessed on
2018-03-19.) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Many
thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div
style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:dotted
windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0cm"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Emeritus
Professor Jeff Siegel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Linguistics,
School of Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">University
of New England<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Armidale,
NSW 2351<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Australia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a
href="https://www.une.edu.au/staff-profiles/bcss/jsiegel"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.une.edu.au/staff-profiles/bcss/jsiegel</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
lang="EN-AU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bernard Comrie
Distinguished Faculty Professor of Linguistics, University of California Santa Barbara
E-mail: comrie at linguistics.ucsb.edu
Web site: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/bernard-comrie">http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/bernard-comrie</a>
Department of Linguistics
University of California, Santa Barbara
Santa Barbara, CA 93106-3100
USA
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
IPF 141199
Nikolaistrasse 6-10
D-04109 Leipzig
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