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<p>Interesting. This use of a verb (prototypically but not
exclusively "know") with a negative meaning (when prototypically
but not exclusively associated with a specific intonation contour)
seems, from the preceding discussion, to be a Southeast Asian
(mainland plus island) areal phenomenon, occurring in Lao,
Indonesian, Tukang Besi and Tagalog.</p>
<p>Though an alternative hypothesis would be that it was merely a
group of Southeast Asianists who were first to comment on this
phenomenon in this thread, and that it is actually more widespread
...<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/06/2018 01:42, Nick Enfield
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2A55EA77-A710-4EBB-AF8A-0FB0BD00C6BA@sydney.edu.au">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">In Lao:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">The verb
cak2 means ‘know’, and can be negated as in man2 bòò1 cak2
[3sg neg know] ‘S/he doesn’t know.’ But when used alone,
with no subject expressed, often with the perfect marker (as
in cak2 or cak2 lèèw4) it means “I don’t know.”<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">The verb
faaw4 means ‘to hurry, rush’, and can be negated as in man2
bòò1 faaw4 [3sg neg rush] ‘S/he doesn’t hurry/isn’t
hurrying.’ But when used alone as an imperative, with no
subject expressed, often repeated, or with an appropriate
sentence-final particle (as in faaw4 faaw4 or faaw4 dee4) it
means “Don’t hurry, Stop hurrying, Slow down”.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Often, both
positive and negative readings of verbs are available when
the irrealis prefix si is used (with context or perhaps
intonation doing the work); eg khaw3 si kin3 [3pl irr eat]
could mean ‘They will eat it’ or ‘They will definitely not
eat it’ with a meaning similar to the colloquial English
expression “As if they would eat it.” The second meaning is
made more likely by insertion of the directional paj3 ‘go’
before the verb (khaw3 si paj3 kin3 [3pl irr go eat] ‘As if
they would eat it.’).<o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US">N. J. ENFIELD </span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt" lang="EN-US">| FAHA FRSN |
Professor of Linguistics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Head, Post Truth Initiative
<a href="https://posttruthinitiative.org/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://posttruthinitiative.org/</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Director, SSSHARC (Sydney Social Sciences and
Humanities Advanced Research Centre)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US">Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US">THE UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
Rm N364, John Woolley Building A20 | NSW | 2006 |
AUSTRALIA<br>
T +61 2 9351 2391 | M +61 476 239 669<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US"><a
href="javascript:irmaDisplayUrl(%22http://orcid.org/0000-0003-3891-6973%22)"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">orcid.org/0000-0003-3891-6973</span></a>
<br>
E <a href="mailto:nick.enfield@sydney.edu.au"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">nick.enfield@sydney.edu.au</span></a> | W
<a href="http://sydney.edu.au/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">sydney.edu.au</span></a>
<a href="http://www.nickenfield.org/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">nickenfield.org</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lingtyp
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on
behalf of Mark Donohue <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mark@donohue.cc"><mark@donohue.cc></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 1 June 2018 at 7:13 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>David Gil <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">"LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Does bipolar polysemy
exist?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In Tukang Besi, an Austronesian language
of Indonesia, the verb 'know' is dahani; verbs are generally
prefixed to agree with the S,A argument, thus
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">ku-dahani 'I know'<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">'u-dahani 'you know'<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In some contexts (imperatives, emphatic
generic (TAME-less) assertion), the prefix can be omitted.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">dahani 'I/you certainly know'<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now, I've heard this (and only this)
verb used, in the absence of any inflection, with exactly
its opposite meaning<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dahani 'I don't know'<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">in what might be a sarcastic sense.
Unlike the antonymic uses of many adjectives in many
languages, including English, this use of dahani is
actually a simple (though emphatic) negation of the verb's
'normal' meaning.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Mark<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1 June 2018 at 04:43, David Gil <<a
href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, as Matti points out, negative
lexicalization is not quite as rare as I was implying.
Yet at the same time, I suspect that it might not be as
common as Matti is suggesting. Looking at the examples
that he cites in his Handbook chapter, I suspect that in
some cases, the negative counterpart isn't "just"
negative, but is also associated with some additional
meaning components.<br>
<br>
Matti doesn't list "good"/"bad" as being such a pair,
though, citing work by Ulrike Zeshan on sign languages,
he does mention other evaluative concepts such as "not
right", "not possible", "not enough". in English, at
least, "bad" is not the negation of "good", it is the
antonym of "good"; there's all kind of stuff in the
world which we attach no evaluative content to, and
which hence is neither good nor bad. (It's true that in
English, in many contexts, the expression "not good" is
understood as meaning "bad", which is interesting in and
of itself, but still, it is not necessarily understood
in this way.) While I have no direct evidence, I would
strongly suspect that in languages that have lexicalized
expressions for "not right", "not possible", and "not
enough", the meanings of these expressions will be the
antonyms of "right", "possible" and "enough", and not
their negations.<br>
<br>
Under lexicalized negatives in the domain of
tense/aspect, Matti lists "will not", "did not", "not
finished". Well the one case that I am familiar with
that falls into this category is that of the
Malay/Indonesian iamative/perfect marker "sudah", which
has a lexicalized negative counterpart "belum".
However, "belum" isn't just "not sudah"; it also bears a
strong (if not invariant) implicature that at some point
in the future, the state or activity that is not
complete will be completed — in fact, just like the
English expression "not yet". (When people in Indonesia
ask you if you're married, it's considered impolite to
answer with a simple negation "tidak"; you're supposed
to say "belum" precisely because of its implicature that
you will, in the future, get married. By avoiding this
implicature, the simple negation "tidak" is viewed as a
threat to the natural order of things, in which
everybody should get married.)<br>
<br>
I suspect that many if not all of the cases
characterized by Matti as "lexicalized negatives" will
turn out to be associated with some additional meaning
component beyond that of "mere" negation.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 31/05/2018 20:06, Miestamo, Matti M P wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear
David, Zygmunt and others,<br>
<br>
negative lexicalization is not quite as rare as
David seems to imply. There is a cross-linguistic
survey of this phenomenon by Ljuba Veselinova
(ongoing work, detailed and informative
presentation slides available through her
website), and Zeshan (2013) has written on this
phenomenon in sign languages. There's also a short
summary in my recent Cambridge Handbook of
Linguistic Typology chapter on negation (preprint
available via the link in the signature below).<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matti<br>
<br>
--<br>
Matti Miestamo<br>
<a
href="https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/O7N4CL7rK8t5zx0kUBCq-Q?domain=ling.helsinki.fi"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~matmies/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Zygmunt Frajzyngier <<a
href="mailto:Zygmunt.Frajzyngier@COLORADO.EDU"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Zygmunt.Frajzyngier@COLORADO.EDU</a>>
kirjoitti 31.5.2018 kello 17.23:<br>
<br>
David, Friends<br>
Related to David’s post, not to the original
query.<br>
In any individual language, there may exist a
few of ‘Not-X’ items.<br>
In Mina (Central Chadic) there is a noun which
designates ‘non-blacksmith’.<br>
In several Chadic languages there exist negative
existential verb unrelated to the affirmative
existential verb.<br>
Zygmunt<br>
<br>
On 5/31/18, 5:52 AM, "Lingtyp on behalf of David
Gil" <<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
on behalf of
<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 31/05/2018 13:37, Sebastian Nordhoff
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">On 05/31/2018 01:18 PM,
David Gil wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">A point of logic. "Not
X" and "Antonym (X)" are distinct notions,
and<br>
the original query by Ian Joo pertains to
the former, not the latter.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">but is there any
(monomorphemic) lexeme which expresses not-X
which is<br>
not the antonym of X?<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> But how many
(monomorphemic) lexemes expressing not-X are
there at all?<br>
The only ones I can think of are suppletive
negative existentials, e.g.<br>
Tagalog "may" (exist) > "wala" (not
exist). Even suppletive negative<br>
desideratives don't quite fit the bill, e.g.
Tagalog "nais"/"gusto"<br>
(want) > "ayaw", which is commonly
glossed as "not want", but actually<br>
means "want not-X", rather than "not want-X"
— "ayaw" is thus an antonym<br>
but not a strict negation of "nais"/"gusto".<br>
<br>
What is not clear to me about the original
query is whether it is asking<br>
for negations or for antonyms.<br>
<br>
--<br>
David Gil<br>
<br>
Department of Linguistic and Cultural
Evolution<br>
Max Planck Institute for the Science of
Human History<br>
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany<br>
<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><br>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834<br>
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lingtyp mailing list<br>
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href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
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<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lingtyp mailing list<br>
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href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
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href="https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/VBmHCMwvLQTGnKp2ikHGCw?domain=listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Lingtyp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
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href="https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/VBmHCMwvLQTGnKp2ikHGCw?domain=listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
-- <br>
David Gil<br>
<br>
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<br>
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human
History<br>
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany<br>
<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><br>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834<br>
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lingtyp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/VBmHCMwvLQTGnKp2ikHGCw?domain=listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
</pre>
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