<div dir="ltr">
<p style="margin:0px 0px 10.66px"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Dear all, </font></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 10.66px"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">I’m overwhelmed
by the amount and the quality of the responses so far! Many interesting references
also. I still have to check out some of them more properly (and find some of
them!), but I think Evan (2003) in his introduction really argues well both for
some “whys” and “hows” with regard to multilectal grammars (or “pan-dialectal
grammars”, although for our case the varieties are not perceived as different
dialects but different languages). And of course, there are many challenges beyond
data presentation which a multilectal grammar shares with a monolectal one, e.g.
regarding reliability and validity. We absolutely want to connect our description
to an archive of some kind and/or publish it electronically online, not least for
the benefit for the speakers themselves. Many thanks for pointing out some
literature on this matter. Many thanks also for reminding us to take the very
important issue of colorblindness into consideration and to make sure to always
coherently account for the realization of a specific form/function in ALL languages.
To avoid that, perhaps one solution (which I’m personally very fond of) could
be introductory tables listing the various realizations of a given paradigm. For
example, the one on copula constructions could like below (SM= Subject Marker).
</font><u></u></span></p>
<table style="margin:0px;border:medium;border-collapse:collapse" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td valign="top" style="margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;border:1.33px solid rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:1.33px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">ikoma</font></span></b></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:1.33px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">nata</font></span></b></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:1.33px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">ishenye</font></span></b></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:1.33px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:solid solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">ngoreme</font></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px;border-style:none solid solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">past</font></span></b></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N-)SM-V-<i>ɾe</i></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N-)SM-<i>a-ɾe</i></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N-)SM-V<i>-ɾenɡe</i><span style="margin:0px">
</span></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N)-SM-<i>a-ɾe</i></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px;border-style:none solid solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">present</font></span></b></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N-)SM-V<i>ɲi</i></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N-)SM-V<i>ɲi</i></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N-)SM-<i>ɾe</i></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N)-SM-<i>Vni</i></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px;border-style:none solid solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">future</font></span></b></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px">(N-)SM-</span><i>β</i>-<i>a</i></font></font></font><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px">(N-)SM-</span><i>β-a</i></font></font></font><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px">(N-)SM-</span><i>β-</i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px">e</span></i></font></font></font><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"></span></p>
</td>
<td valign="top" style="border-width:0px 1.33px 1.33px 0px;border-style:none solid solid none;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0px;padding:0cm 5.4pt;background-color:transparent">
<p style="margin:0px;line-height:normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000">(N)-SM-<i>ɾa-β-a</i></font></font></font></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 10.66px"><b><span style="margin:0px"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><font color="#000000"><span style="margin:0px"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px">table ? affirmative copula constructions (in different temporal
contexts)</span></font></font></font></span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 10.66px"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Starting the
section on copula constructions with such a table, one would make sure to have
represented all form-meaning pairs of all languages. However, in the discussion
one wouldn’t necessarily have to illustrate, say, the past tense copula construction
for all languages. It would suffice with one example of the “general” construction
in contrast with the exceptional Ishenye variant. In addition, comparative tables
like this one facilitates historical inferences, i.e. what are shared retentions
and shared innovations contra individual developments, and, in that case, what
are the plausible direction(s) of change. For example, it would seem that the past
tense form with an unspecified vowel <V> in Ikoma and Ngoreme originates
from a weakened </font></span><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(84,84,84);line-height:107%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">°</span><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">-<i>a</i>-
(which resonates nicely with the fact that there’s a past morpheme *-<i>a</i>- reconstructed for Proto-Bantu). This,
I believe, also strengthen the conclusions about the individual varieties.
Would you agree?</font></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 10.66px"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Best, Rasmus</font></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 10.66px"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">PS. I would
also like to take this opportunity to draw your attention to two workshops/conferences
devoted to issues like the one we're discussing here (by accident, one takes place at my old department
and the other one at my new department!).</font></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 10.66px"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(51,51,102);line-height:107%;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",serif;font-size:10pt">Fieldwork:
Methods and Theory </span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri"><span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Short Title: FMT </span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Date: 13-Dec-2018 - 14-Dec-2018 </span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Location: Gothenburg, Sweden </span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Contact Person: Eva-Marie Bloom Ström </span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Meeting Email: fmt1</span><span style="margin:0px"><img width="11" height="12" alt="https://linguistlist.org/images/address-marker.gif"></span></font></font></font><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(51,51,102);line-height:107%;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="http://easychair.org">easychair.org</a> </span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri" size="3">Web Site: </font></span><a style="word-spacing:0px" href="https://sprak.gu.se/forskning/konferenser/fieldwork--methods-and-theory"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(51,0,153);line-height:107%;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",serif;font-size:10pt;text-decoration:none">https://sprak.gu.se/forskning/konferenser/fieldwork--methods-and-theory</span></a><span style="margin:0px;color:rgb(51,51,102);line-height:107%;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",serif;font-size:10pt"><span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px"></span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 10.66px"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px;color:black;line-height:107%;font-size:10pt">Descriptive Grammars and Typology:
The Challenges of Writing Grammars of Underdescribed and Endangered Languages </span><br>
<font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri"><br>
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Date: 27-Mar-2019 - 29-Mar-2019</span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Location: Helsinki, Finland </span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Contact Person: Arja Hamari</span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Meeting Email: <a href="mailto:grammarwriting2019@helsinki.fi">grammarwriting2019@helsinki.fi</a></span><br style="word-spacing:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;word-spacing:0px;float:none">Web Site: </span></font></font></font><a href="https://www.helsinki.fi/en/conferences/descriptive-grammars-and-typology" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(0,102,204);line-height:107%;font-size:10pt">https://www.helsinki.fi/en/conferences/descriptive-grammars-and-typology</span></a></p>
<span style="word-spacing:0px;float:none"></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2018-06-18 19:03 GMT+02:00 Claire Bowern <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:clairebowern@gmail.com" target="_blank">clairebowern@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I've used pan-dialectal grammars but haven't written one. A problem<br>
with all the grammars I've read is that, when there is no explicit<br>
mention of dialectal difference -- it's impossible to know how much to<br>
generalize. That is, if the grammar is about dialects X, Y, and Z, and<br>
a section mentions only X and Y, does it also apply to Z and the<br>
author didn't mention it? Or does Z have a different construction,<br>
covered elsewhere?<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Claire<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 3:03 AM Sebastian Nordhoff<br>
<<a href="mailto:sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de">sebastian.nordhoff@<wbr>glottotopia.de</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Dear Rasmus,<br>
> this is a very interesting topic. The most important principle to follow<br>
> would be, in my view, the separation of content and presentation.<br>
><br>
> This means that your text should code which passages refer to Ikoma,<br>
> Nata, Isenye, Ngoreme, respectively, but it should NOT say how this is<br>
> to be represented visually.<br>
><br>
> This will allow you to adapt the presentation of your content for<br>
> different audiences later on. Depending on the audience, you could opt<br>
> for color coding, borders, fonts for the different varieties, or no<br>
> visual distinction at all.<br>
><br>
> This kind of semantic coding is the standard way of doing things in<br>
> HTML+CSS or LaTeX, but you can also use MS Word styles to achieve this.<br>
><br>
> One fundamental question would be whether the outcomes of this project<br>
> are to be represented in book form (linear representation), or whether a<br>
> non-linear approach (think Wikipedia) might be more useful. There are<br>
> arguments for both approaches.<br>
><br>
> In addition to the 2012 book which Peter Austin mentioned, you might<br>
> find the following article interesting:<br>
> Nordhoff, Sebastian. 2008. Electronic reference grammars for typology:<br>
> Challenges and solutions. Language Documentation & Conservation<br>
> 2(2):296–324.<br>
> <a href="https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/handle/10125/4352?mode=full" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://scholarspace.manoa.<wbr>hawaii.edu/handle/10125/4352?<wbr>mode=full</a><br>
><br>
> Best wishes<br>
> Sebastian<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 06/15/2018 03:02 PM, Rasmus Bernander wrote:<br>
> > Dear members of the Lingtyp list,<br>
> ><br>
> > I’m currently involved in a project called “Linguistic Variation as an<br>
> > Indicator of Historical Relations and Language Contact: A Comparative<br>
> > grammar of four Mara Bantu languages (Tanzania)”. The project is funded by<br>
> > Koneen Säätiö and led by Dr. Lotta Aunio, Department of Languages,<br>
> > University of Helsinki. As implied in the title, the project aims at<br>
> > offering a linguistic description of four closely related (yet structurally<br>
> > versatile) Bantu varieties, Ikoma, Nata, Isenye and Ngoreme (known<br>
> > collectively as the Western Serengeti languages). More information about<br>
> > the project can be found at this homepage:<br>
> > <a href="https://blogs.helsinki.fi/mara-project/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://blogs.helsinki.fi/<wbr>mara-project/</a><br>
> ><br>
> > We are struggling a bit with the question about the ideal way of designing<br>
> > the linguistic description. We would like to ask you ”Humans who read<br>
> > grammars”, i.e. you researchers who make typological (and/or comparative<br>
> > and/or specific theoretical) work and thus have great experience in reading<br>
> > grammars as well as extracting information from grammars: What would you<br>
> > consider being the most helpful and straightforward way to organize the<br>
> > structure of a multilectal grammar of this kind? We would prefer to find a<br>
> > way to systemize the data in a manner where we don’t have to prioritize one<br>
> > variety over the others and where we can also present the subsystems of the<br>
> > non-main varieties in a coherent way. It seems that some grammars use<br>
> > color/symbol coding for different varieties. Do you consider that helpful?<br>
> > Or do you have other, similar ideas on how one would succeed in creating a<br>
> > really clear and comprehensible comparative grammar?<br>
> ><br>
> > Many thanks in advance!<br>
> ><br>
> > /Rasmus Bernander<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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> ><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>