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Your usage was fine. There’s no need to turn the clock back and talk about agreement as “copying”. We’ve seen since at least Mike Barlow’s thesis (1988) that it makes sense to think of agreement as the cumulation of (partial) information. Then the presence
of nominal elements is a separate issue. We know that there are plenty of situations between obligatory presence and obligatory absence of such elements, so we shouldn’t tangle up the two things. So your term was fine (and it’s certainly not the case that
the terminology depends on English or German). But this is a change of topic, and it would be good to leave it and to get back to the interesting one.
<div class="">Very best, Grev<br class="">
<div class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 20 Jun 2018, at 17:18, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<p class="">In my previous posting, my use of the term "person agreement" was imprecise, as I think Martin is implying: in the Austronesian cases that I am familiar with, the "conominal" (to use Martin's term from his "Argument Indexing" paper) is indeed optional,
not obligatory as in German and English.<br class="">
</p>
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/06/2018 13:38, Martin Haspelmath wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:5B2A3CB2.8000702@shh.mpg.de" class="">Changing the topic a bit: I'm glad that the term "person(-number) indexing" is being used in this discussion, because "agreement in person" seems to be extremely rare in the world's languages
(found only in Germanic, Romance, and Anejom, according to Siewierska 1999: 239).<br class="">
<br class="">
Many linguists use the term "agreement" in situations like Spanish "yo quier-o“, even though in almost all languages with person indexes the independent personal pronoun is only used to emphasize the referent. This seems to be motivated primarily by the situation
in German and English, where the pronoun is indeed obligtory and the verb can be said to copy its person-number features from the pronoun.<br class="">
<br class="">
Or am I missing something? Are there other reasons to use the term "person agreement", e.g. in the Austronesian languages of eastern Indonesia that David mentions?<br class="">
<br class="">
Best,<br class="">
Martin<br class="">
<br class="">
*********<br class="">
<br class="">
Reference<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="csl-bib-body" style="line-height: 1.35; margin-left:
2em; text-indent:-2em;">
<div class="csl-entry">Siewierska, Anna. 1999. From anaphoric pronoun to grammatical agreement marker: Why objects don’t make it.
<i class="">Folia Linguistica</i> 33(1–2). 225–252.</div>
<span class="Z3988" title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=From%20anaphoric%20pronoun%20to%20grammatical%20agreement%20marker%3A%20Why%20objects%20don't%20make%20it.&rft.jtitle=Folia%20Linguistica&rft.volume=33&rft.issue=1-2&rft.aufirst=Anna&rft.aulast=Siewierska&rft.au=Anna%20Siewierska&rft.date=1999&rft.pages=225%E2%80%93252"></span></div>
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20.06.18 09:36, David Gil wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:e4bec593-89e8-4020-a310-31a32aecd3fd@shh.mpg.de" type="cite" class="">
Ilja, <br class="">
<br class="">
This is not exactly what you're asking for, but perhaps close enough to be of interest. Austronesian languages typically do not have verbal person-number subject indexes; however, in many Austronesian languages of eastern Indonesia, verbal agreement has arisen,
and, for the most part, the markers in question are clearly reconstructable to the earlier Austronesian independent pronouns.
<br class="">
<br class="">
Best, <br class="">
<br class="">
David <br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On 19/06/2018 21:52, Ilja Seržant wrote: <br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Dear all, <br class="">
<br class="">
I am looking for families (or subfamilies with a larger time depth) for which verbal person-number subject indexes / "agreement" affixes (featuring the intransitive subject for ergative lgs.) are reconstructed. (I already have data on Dravidian, Semitic, Indo-European,
Maya, Finno-Ugric and Turkic but I need more for my study on the dynamics of these).
<br class="">
<br class="">
I would be very grateful for any reference. <br class="">
<br class="">
Best, <br class="">
<br class="">
Ilja <br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
IPF 141199
Nikolaistrasse 6-10
D-04109 Leipzig
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</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
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