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<p>In my previous posting, my use of the term "person agreement" was
imprecise, as I think Martin is implying: in the Austronesian
cases that I am familiar with, the "conominal" (to use Martin's
term from his "Argument Indexing" paper) is indeed optional, not
obligatory as in German and English.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/06/2018 13:38, Martin Haspelmath
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:5B2A3CB2.8000702@shh.mpg.de">
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Changing the topic a bit: I'm glad that the term "person(-number)
indexing" is being used in this discussion, because "agreement in
person" seems to be extremely rare in the world's languages (found
only in Germanic, Romance, and Anejom, according to Siewierska
1999: 239).<br>
<br>
Many linguists use the term "agreement" in situations like Spanish
"yo quier-o“, even though in almost all languages with person
indexes the independent personal pronoun is only used to emphasize
the referent. This seems to be motivated primarily by the
situation in German and English, where the pronoun is indeed
obligtory and the verb can be said to copy its person-number
features from the pronoun.<br>
<br>
Or am I missing something? Are there other reasons to use the term
"person agreement", e.g. in the Austronesian languages of eastern
Indonesia that David mentions?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
*********<br>
<br>
Reference<br>
<br>
<div class="csl-bib-body" style="line-height: 1.35; margin-left:
2em; text-indent:-2em;">
<div class="csl-entry">Siewierska, Anna. 1999. From anaphoric
pronoun to grammatical agreement marker: Why objects don’t
make it. <i>Folia Linguistica</i> 33(1–2). 225–252.</div>
<span class="Z3988"
title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=From%20anaphoric%20pronoun%20to%20grammatical%20agreement%20marker%3A%20Why%20objects%20don't%20make%20it.&rft.jtitle=Folia%20Linguistica&rft.volume=33&rft.issue=1-2&rft.aufirst=Anna&rft.aulast=Siewierska&rft.au=Anna%20Siewierska&rft.date=1999&rft.pages=225%E2%80%93252"></span></div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20.06.18 09:36, David Gil wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:e4bec593-89e8-4020-a310-31a32aecd3fd@shh.mpg.de"
type="cite">Ilja, <br>
<br>
This is not exactly what you're asking for, but perhaps close
enough to be of interest. Austronesian languages typically do
not have verbal person-number subject indexes; however, in many
Austronesian languages of eastern Indonesia, verbal agreement
has arisen, and, for the most part, the markers in question are
clearly reconstructable to the earlier Austronesian independent
pronouns. <br>
<br>
Best, <br>
<br>
David <br>
<br>
<br>
On 19/06/2018 21:52, Ilja Seržant wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear all, <br>
<br>
I am looking for families (or subfamilies with a larger time
depth) for which verbal person-number subject indexes /
"agreement" affixes (featuring the intransitive subject for
ergative lgs.) are reconstructed. (I already have data on
Dravidian, Semitic, Indo-European, Maya, Finno-Ugric and
Turkic but I need more for my study on the dynamics of these).
<br>
<br>
I would be very grateful for any reference. <br>
<br>
Best, <br>
<br>
Ilja <br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
IPF 141199
Nikolaistrasse 6-10
D-04109 Leipzig
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
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