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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=FR link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;line-break:after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Randy, dear David, dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> To my knowledge, Mandarin</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho"'>由</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> (<i>yóu</i>) does not specifically mark the agent, but <span style='color:#1F497D'> the participant responsible for some situation or action, a participant who, thereby, acts as a source, as in<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#1F497D'>准</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D'>备工作</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D'>由</span></b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D'>我负责</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (<i>zhǔnbèi gōngzùo </i></span><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>yóu<span style='color:#1F497D'> wǒ fùzé</span></span></i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>) « the person responsible for the preparation work will be me ».<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The Mandarin adposition which marks the agent is usually </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#1F497D'>被</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (bèi) rather than </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#1F497D'>由</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(<i>yóu</i>). For example,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho"'>他</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>们</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho"'>没有</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho"'>被</span></b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho"'>困</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>难</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho"'>吓倒</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> (<i>tāmen méiyǒu bèi kùnnán xiàdăo</i> « they have not been frightened away by difficulties ».<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It is interesting to note that, contrary to the common Sino-Tibetan tendency by which actor and source use the same adposition, Mandarin does not, at least in its present literary usage. This situation leads us to ask whether the notions of source and actor are not actually, despite the frequent formal syncretism induced by the semantic kinship, distinct notions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This suggestion could be borne out by Malay-Indonesian facts. According to David, « the use of <i>dari</i> to mark agents is characteristic of Eastern contact varieties of Malay. [He has] heard it in, among other places, Papua, Halmahera, Ambon, Maluku Tenggara and Timor. And it is also attested in the Kirinda subdialect of Sri Lankan Malay ». This use, though not quite widespread, is not unknown in Jakarta, in Bandung and in North-West Sumateran varieties of Indonesian. In these varieties, the most frequent mark of agents is <i>oleh</i>, especially, but not only, after a passive verb, marked as such by the prefix <i>di</i>-. Interestingly, however, <i>oleh</i> and <i>dari</i> can both be used in certain constructions. For example, in Bandung, I have heard both <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>dia tidak mati <b>dari</b> penyakit<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>dia tidak mati <b>oleh</b> penyakit</span></i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>both meaning, literally, « he is not dead because of illness ».<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>According to informants (to the extent that their judgments are reliable…), the use of <i>oleh</i> rather than <i>dari</i> in this context stresses the fat that illness is seen as a deciding factor, implicitly comparable to a human being in terms of efficacy (so to say !).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thus, the differences between the notions of source and agent, although often treated the same way in many languages, deserve an indepth study.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>All the best<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Claude (Collège de France, Paris, chaire de théorie linguistique)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(claude-hagege@wanadoo.fr)<br><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Lingtyp [mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org] <b>De la part de</b> Randy J. LaPolla<br><b>Envoyé :</b> samedi 21 juillet 2018 13:43<br><b>À :</b> Ponrawee Prasertsom<br><b>Cc :</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Syncretism between forms encoding source and agent<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sorry, there is a typo in my last message: the Mandarin pronunciation of the Sinitic word I mentioned should be <i>yóu</i> (not <i>yǒu</i>).<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Randy<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>-----</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#222222;background:white'>（羅</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#222222;background:white'>仁地</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#222222;background:white'>）</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>Professor of Linguistics and Chinese, School of Humanities </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>Nanyang Technological University</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>HSS-03-45, 14 Nanyang Drive </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>| <span class=apple-style-span>Singapore 637332</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'><a href="http://randylapolla.net/">http://randylapolla.net/</a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>Most recent book:</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'><a href="https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324">https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324</a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 21 Jul 2018, at 7:31 PM, Randy J. LaPolla <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear <span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ponrawee Prasertsom,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>In the Sino-Tibetan languages it is common for the same adposition to be used for ablative (source), instrument, manner adverb, actor, and/or causal clause marker. See the following papers:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div style='margin-left:14.2pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify;text-indent:-14.2pt'><span lang=EN-AU>LaPolla, Randy J. 1995. On the utility of the concepts of markedness and prototypes in understanding the development of morphological systems. <i>Bulletin of the Institute of History and Philology</i> 66.4:1149-1185.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=MsoHyperlink><span lang=EN-AU style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'><a href="http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/randylapolla/Papers/LaPolla_1995_On_the_Utility_of_the_Concepts_of_Markedness_and_Prototypes_in_Understanding_the_Development_of_Morphological_Systems.pdf">www.ntu.edu.sg/home/randylapolla/Papers/LaPolla_1995_On_the_Utility_of_the_Concepts_of_Markedness_and_Prototypes_in_Understanding_the_Development_of_Morphological_Systems.pdf</a></span></span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:14.2pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify;text-indent:-14.2pt'><span lang=EN-AU>LaPolla, Randy J. 1995. Ergative marking in Tibeto-Burman. In Yoshio Nishi, James A. Matisoff, & Yasuhiko Nagano (eds.), <i>New horizons in Tibeto-Burman morpho-syntax</i> (<i>Senri Ethnological Studies </i>41), 189-228. Osaka: National Museum of Ethnology.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/randylapolla/Papers/LaPolla_1995_Ergative_Marking_in_Tibeto-Burman.pdf">www.ntu.edu.sg/home/randylapolla/Papers/LaPolla_1995_Ergative_Marking_in_Tibeto-Burman.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:14.2pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='text-align:justify;text-indent:-14.2pt'><span lang=EN-AU>LaPolla, Randy J. 2004. On nominal relational morphology in Tibeto-Burman. In Ying-jin Lin, Fang-min Hsu, Chun-chih Lee, Jackson T.-S. Sun, Hsiu-fang Yang, and Dah-an Ho (eds.), <i>Studies on Sino-Tibetan languages: Papers in honor of Professor Hwang-cherng Gong on his seventieth birthday,</i> 43-74. Taipei: Institute of Linguistics, Academia Sinica, December 2004.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/randylapolla/Papers/LaPolla_2004_On_Nominal_Relational_Morphology_in_Tibeto-Burman.pdf">www.ntu.edu.sg/home/randylapolla/Papers/LaPolla_2004_On_Nominal_Relational_Morphology_in_Tibeto-Burman.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>These papers mainly talk about Tibeto-Burman, but in Sinitic (Chinese) the same is true of the particle yǒu (<span style='font-family:"MS Mincho"'>由</span>).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>All the best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Randy <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>-----</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#222222;background:white'>（羅</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#222222;background:white'>仁地</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#222222;background:white'>）</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>Professor of Linguistics and Chinese, School of Humanities </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>Nanyang Technological University</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>HSS-03-45, 14 Nanyang Drive </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>| <span class=apple-style-span>Singapore 637332</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'><a href="http://randylapolla.net/">http://randylapolla.net/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'>Most recent book:</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;background:white'><a href="https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324">https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 21 Jul 2018, at 6:06 AM, Ponrawee Prasertsom <<a href="mailto:ponrawee.pra@gmail.com">ponrawee.pra@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dear all,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I am exploring research possibilities on the language of motion events.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Does anyone know of a language that employs the same form (in any strategy--case, preposition, syntactic roles etc.) that for coding source (the starting point in a motion event, as in: I walked *from* my house to school) and agent? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Related references would also be highly appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ponrawee Prasertsom<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Graduate Student<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Department of Linguistics<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Chulalongkorn University<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Bangkok, Thailand<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
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