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    <p>As always, I am strongly supportive of Martin's attempts to
      impose order on the Augean Stables of current linguistic
      terminology.  However, I suspect that his latest proposal (below)
      doesn't quite do the job it was intended to.</p>
    <p>Martin suggests that Simon's original Taba and Indonesian
      examples might be characterized as instantiating a more general
      comparative concept of "objectative" — a construction in which a
      new P-like or R-like object is added, possibly marked with an
      adposition.  However useful the notion of "objectative" may prove
      to be elsewhere, in the Indonesian examples at least, it is not
      the case that a new argument is necessarily added, and hence they
      don't meet Martin's definition of "objectative".<br>
      <br>
      What seems to me to be a more insightful perspective on the
      Indonesian examples is that which appears to be offered by Sara
      Pacchiarotti, at least judging by the partial abstract of her
      dissertation cited by Doris Payne in her message earlier today. 
      Specifically, the Indonesian suffix "-kan" and its counterparts in
      other related languages would seem to fall somewhere in the range
      between her "Type B applicatives" in which "syntactic valence
      might be increased, but need not be", and her "Type C applicative
      constructions", in which "the applicative does not introduce an
      applied phrase. Instead, it provides semantic nuances to the
      lexical meaning of its root".<br>
      <br>
      Moving beyond the Indonesian, I suspect that both Martin's and
      Sara Pacchiarotti's typologies may prove to be useful, seeing as
      they are conceptually orthogonal to one another.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/10/2018 22:18, Martin Haspelmath
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:5BC79932.50702@shh.mpg.de">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      On 17.10.18 20:52, Peter Arkadiev wrote:<br>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:2812461539802355@sas1-fb8a605c4548.qloud-c.yandex.net"
        type="cite">There are languages, most notably Northwest
        Caucasian and Kartvelian, where arguments introduced by
        applicatives are coded as ditransitive Rs rather than as
        monotransitive Ps. We can certainly invent a different
        comparative concept for this (e.g. "version", to adapt the
        traditional Caucasological term), but the similarities between
        "applicatives" and "versions" seem to be more important than
        differences, so it would be better to have a common comparative
        concept subsuming both </blockquote>
      <br>
      OK, so here's a proposal: "applicative" is a construction in which
      a new P-like object is added, and "versiative" is a construction
      in which a new (indirective-)R-like object is added (inspired by
      Russian "versija", or version). They are both subtypes of a more
      general concept, perhaps called "objectative".<br>
      <br>
      One could also have another subtype, e.g. "adpositive", for a
      verbal marker that adds a new adpositionally marked argument. Then
      Simon Musgrave's original examples would be objectatives, both of
      the applicative and the adpositive sort.<br>
      <br>
      These neologisms may sound strange, but it's actually just a
      historical accident that we don't have such terms in common use.
      The fact that "applicative" is a commonly used term does not mean
      that there must be a natural cross-linguistic phenomenon that
      corresponds to the term.<br>
      <br>
      Best,<br>
      Martin<br>
      <br>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:2812461539802355@sas1-fb8a605c4548.qloud-c.yandex.net"
        type="cite">
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">-- </div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Peter Arkadiev, PhD</div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Institute of Slavic
          Studies</div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Russian Academy of
          Sciences</div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Leninsky prospekt 32-A
          119991 Moscow</div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><a
            class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
            href="mailto:peterarkadiev@yandex.ru" moz-do-not-send="true">peterarkadiev@yandex.ru</a></div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><a
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
            href="http://inslav.ru/people/arkadev-petr-mihaylovich-peter-arkadiev"
            moz-do-not-send="true">http://inslav.ru/people/arkadev-petr-mihaylovich-peter-arkadiev</a></div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> </div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> </div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> </div>
        <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">17.10.2018, 18:07,
          "Martin Haspelmath" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
            href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true"><haspelmath@shh.mpg.de></a>:</div>
        <blockquote xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" type="cite">
          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">I think the answer to Adam's question
            is that a construction is an applicative only if the new
            object is coded like the P-argument of a basic transitive
            construction.<br>
            <br>
            Thus, Simon Musgrave's example (1c) from Taba (based on
            Bowden 2001) is an (instrumental) applicative:<br>
            <br>
            npun-ak kolay peda<br>
            kill-APPL snake machete<br>
            <br>
            But when the instrument 'machete' has its instrumental
            preposition (ada peda 'with a machete'), it is not an
            applicative, from a typological perspective (= as a
            comparative concept).<br>
            <br>
            There is no "official" definition of the (typological) term
            "applicative", of course, but it is my understanding that
            most people use the term in this way. The Wikipedia article
            reflects this by speaking about promotion to "(core)
            object": <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicative_voice">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicative_voice</a>.<br>
            <br>
            (Maria Polinsky's WALS article is vague and speaks just
            about "increasing the number of object arguments by one",
            without making precise what is meant by "object", <a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://wals.info/chapter/109">https://wals.info/chapter/109</a>.
            But her examples and the discussion make it clear that she
            means objects coded like P-arguments.)<br>
            <br>
            This does not mean, of course, that the description of Taba
            should not use the term "Applicative" for the suffix -ak in
            all cases – but this would be a language-specific
            descriptive category, somewhat like Dative is used in
            Russian-type languages also when the case in question is not
            used in its definitional function (recipient of 'give').<br>
            <br>
            Best,<br>
            Martin<br>
            <br>
             
            <div>On 17.10.18 16:45, Adam James Ross Tallman wrote:</div>
            <blockquote
cite="mid:CAK0T6OixXoHc2eCv3DFwT8uyuquZYNK36qkR70mA0oFS2FOiJA@mail.gmail.com"
              type="cite">
              <div
                style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130;">Hello,</div>
              <div
                style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130;"> </div>
              <div
                style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130;">I
                know of some phenomena that is similar to this (I think)
                in Chácobo and other languages. But I have a question
                about terminology here. Why is it still an applicative
                if a (n oblique?) postposition is marked on the
                "promoted" argument? What are the criteria that identify
                it as "promoted" in this case (non-repeatability,
                position in clause etc...). Or is there some type of
                semantic criterion at work here?</div>
              <div
                style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130;"> </div>
              <div
                style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130;">best,</div>
              <div
                style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130;"> </div>
              <div
                style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130;">Adam </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
           
          <div>On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 9:36 AM Françoise Rose <<a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:francoise.rose@univ-lyon2.fr">francoise.rose@univ-lyon2.fr</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
            solid;padding-left:1ex;">
            <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="FR">
              <div>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US">Dear Simon,</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US">Thanks for your query, it’s very
                    interesting. </span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US">I just gave a talk at SWL8 on an
                    applicative construction of Mojeño that is
                    correlated with the presence of verbal classifiers
                    that refer to a location. When such a verbal
                    classifier is present, the “coreferential” NP can be
                    expressed as an object rather than an oblique (i.e.
                    it loses its preposition, as in the second example
                    below). Interestingly, there is some variation. The
                    preposition can be maintained in the locative
                    phrase, even when the verbal classifier is present,
                    but there is then no valency change (so the
                    construction does not count as an applicative).
                    Intransitive verbs take a 3rd person subject
                    t-prefix, while transitive verbs take some
                    semantically more specific prefixes for 3rd person
                    when the object is third person also (as in the
                    second example). So this case is not exactly what
                    you were looking for, but the presence of three
                    alternates here is interesting: the construction of
                    example 3 could well be an intermediate step in the
                    development of the applicative effect of
                    classifiers.</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <table style="width:459.05pt;border-collapse:collapse;"
                  cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="0" border="0">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr style="height:25.55pt;">
                      <td style="width:196.55pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt
                        0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt;" valign="top"
                        width="262">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">t-junopo=po</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:80.85pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:25.55pt;" valign="top" width="108">
                        <p><b><span
                              style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                              lang="EN-US">te</span></b></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:80.85pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:25.55pt;" valign="top" width="108">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">to</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:100.8pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:25.55pt;" valign="top" width="134">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">smeno</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr style="height:25.55pt;">
                      <td style="width:196.55pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt
                        0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt;" valign="top"
                        width="262">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">3-run=pfv</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:80.85pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:25.55pt;" valign="top" width="108">
                        <p><b><span
                              style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                              lang="EN-US">prep</span></b></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:80.85pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:25.55pt;" valign="top" width="108">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">art.nh</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:100.8pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:25.55pt;" valign="top" width="134">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">woods</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr style="height:37.85pt;">
                      <td colspan="4"
                        style="width:459.05pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:37.85pt;" valign="top" width="612">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">'S/he ran <b>to/in/from</b>
                            the woods.'</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <table style="width:447pt;border-collapse:collapse;"
                  cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="0" border="0">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr style="height:22.35pt;">
                      <td style="width:269pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="359">
                        <p><a moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                              style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                              lang="EN-US">ñi-jumpo<b>-je</b>-cho</span></a></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:96pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="128">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">to</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:82pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="109">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">smeno</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr style="height:22.35pt;">
                      <td style="width:269pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="359">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">3m-run<b>-clf:interior</b>-act</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:96pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="128">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">art.nh</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:82pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="109">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">woods</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr style="height:22.35pt;">
                      <td colspan="3" style="width:447pt;padding:0.75pt
                        5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top"
                        width="596">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">S/he runs <b>inside</b> the
                            woods.</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <table style="width:530pt;border-collapse:collapse;"
                  cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="0" border="0">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr style="height:22.35pt;">
                      <td style="width:276pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="368">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">t-jumpo<b>-je</b>-cho</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:75pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="100">
                        <p><b><span
                              style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">te</span></b></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:97pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="129">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">to</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:82pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="109">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">smeno</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr style="height:22.35pt;">
                      <td style="width:276pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="368">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">3-run<b>-clf:interior</b>-act</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:75pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="100">
                        <p><b><span
                              style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                              lang="EN-US">prep</span></b></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:97pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="129">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">art.nh</span></p>
                      </td>
                      <td style="width:82pt;padding:0.75pt 5.75pt 0cm
                        5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top" width="109">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">woods</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                    <tr style="height:22.35pt;">
                      <td colspan="4" style="width:530pt;padding:0.75pt
                        5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt;" valign="top"
                        width="707">
                        <p><span
                            style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                            lang="EN-US">S/he ran inside the woods.</span></p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US">The slides from my presentation can be
                    downloaded from SWL8 website.</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US">Very best,</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">Françoise
                    ROSE</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">Directrice
                    de Recherches 2ème classe, CNRS</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">Laboratoire
                    Dynamique Du Langage (CNRS/Université Lyon2)</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">16
                    avenue Berthelot</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">69007
                    Lyon</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">FRANCE</span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;">(33)4
                    <span>72 72 64 63</span></span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f4e79;"><a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
                      href="http://www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE">www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE</a></span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <p><span
                    style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:#1f497d;"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                <p><b><span
                      style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;">De :</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;"> Lingtyp [mailto:<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
                      href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>]
                    <b>De la part de</b> Simon Musgrave<br>
                    <b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 17 octobre 2018 07:16<br>
                    <b>À :</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      target="_blank"
                      href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
                    <b>Objet :</b> [Lingtyp] Applicative and preposition</span></p>
                <p> </p>
                <div>
                  <p>Dear Lingtyp members,</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p><br>
                    I am posting this query on behalf of one of my PhD
                    students. We will post a summary of responses in due
                    course.<br>
                    <br>
                    From existing studies of applicatives, only two
                    Austronesian languages, Taba and Indonesian, have
                    been documented to unexpectedly retain a preposition
                    when an applicative affix is used to promote a
                    previously non-core object to core.<br>
                    Bowden, in his grammatical description of Taba
                    (2001), states that it is possible for the same idea
                    to be expressed using three possibilities. Firstly,
                    that the third entity is introduced by a
                    preposition, secondly that the applied object is
                    marked by an applicative morpheme and thirdly that
                    the applied object can be marked by an applicative
                    morpheme and preposition, as the following examples
                    show.<br>
                    <br>
                    (1)a.    Ahmad    npun    kolay   <br>
                        Ahmad    3SG=kill    snake   <br>
                        ‘Ahmad killed a snake.’   <br>
                    <br>
                    b.    Ahmad    npun    kolay    ada    peda   
                    PREPOSITION<br>
                        Ahmad    3SG=kill    snake    with    machete   <br>
                        ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a machete.’   <br>
                    <br>
                    c.    Ahmad    npunak    kolay    peda   
                    APPLICATIVE<br>
                        Ahmad    3SG=kill-APPL    snake    machete   <br>
                        ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a machete.’   <br>
                    <br>
                        d.    Ahmad    npunak    kolay    ada    peda   
                    BOTH<br>
                        Ahmad    3SG=kill-APPL    snake    with   
                    machete   <br>
                        ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a machete.’   
                    (2001:204)<br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    Sometimes Indonesian clauses with applicative verbs
                    suffixed with –kan retain the preposition directly
                    following the verb when it is expected to have been
                    lost according to conventional grammar rules, as
                    shown in 2.<br>
                    <br>
                    (2)a.    Yang    penting    saya    sangat   
                    men-cinta-i    Sandy   <br>
                        REL    important    1SG    very   
                    meN.love.APPL    Sandy   <br>
                        dan     meny-enang-kan    atas    semua   
                    ke-jadi-an    itu   <br>
                            meN-senang-kan                   <br>
                        and    meN-pity-APPL    on    all    event   
                    that   <br>
                        ‘What is important is that I love Sandy and
                    regret everything that happened.’     (Musgrave
                    2001:156)<br>
                    <br>
                        b.    Kami    juga    sudah    mem-bicara-kan   
                    dengan     pem-erintah     pusat<br>
                        2PL    also    already    meN-talk-APPL   
                    with    government    central<br>
                        di     Jakarta    soal    rencana   
                    men-ambah    beasiswa    Jerman<br>
                        in    Jakarta    matter    plan   
                    meN-increase    scholarship    German<br>
                        untuk    Indonesia…               <br>
                        for    Indonesia               <br>
                        ‘We have also spoken with the central government
                    in Jakarta about the plan to increase German
                    scholarships to Indonesia.’      (Quasthoff &
                    Gottwald 2012: indmix_565272)<br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    Previous studies of Indonesian have noted the
                    co-occurrence of applicatives and prepositions and
                    have usually made passing comments often speculating
                    that this feature is prevalent in non-standard
                    Indonesian.<br>
                    <br>
                    Our query is whether any list subscribers know of
                    other languages which show this phenomenon and has
                    anyone written about it?</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p> </p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p>Thanks in advance for any information which you can
                    share!</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p> </p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p>Best, Simon</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><br>
                    References<br>
                    Bowden, John. 2001. Taba: Description of a South
                    Halmahera language. Canberra: Pacific Linguistics.<br>
                    Musgrave, Simon. 2001. Non-subject arguments in
                    Indonesian. The University of Melbourne. (PhD
                    thesis).<br>
                    Quasthoff, Uwe & Sebastian Gottwald. 2012.
                    Leipzig corpus collection. (Ed.) Uwe Quasthoff &
                    Gerhard Heyer. University of Leipzig. <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
                      href="http://corpora2.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/">http://corpora2.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/</a>.</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p><br>
                    --</p>
                  <div>
                    <p
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:18pt;"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:#222222;">-- </span></p>
                    <div>
                      <p><b><span>Simon Musgrave  </span></b><span>     
                                    </span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><span>Lecturer</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p><b><span>School of Languages, Literatures,
                            Cultures and Linguistics</span></b></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p><span>Monash University</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <p><span>VIC 3800</span></p>
                    <div>
                      <p><span>Australia</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p><span>T: <span>+61 3 9905 8234</span>         
                                      </span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p><span>E: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            target="_blank"
                            href="mailto:name.surname@monash.edu">
                            simon.musgrave@monash.edu</a></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p><span><a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
                            href="http://monash.edu/">monash.edu</a></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p> </p>
                    </div>
                    <p> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p>Secretary, Australasian Association for the
                      Digital Humanities (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        target="_blank" href="http://aa-dh.org/">aaDH</a>)</p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p style="margin-bottom:12pt;"><br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
                        href="http://profiles.arts.monash.edu.au/simon-musgrave/">Official
                        page</a><br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                       </p>
                    <div>
                      <p> </p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                _______________________________________________<br>
                Lingtyp mailing list<br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
                  href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
                  href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
           
          <div> </div>
          --
          <div><font face="monospace, monospace">Adam J.R. Tallman</font>
            <div><font face="monospace, monospace">Investigador del
                Museo de Etnografía y Folklore, la Paz</font>
              <div><font face="monospace, monospace">PhD, UT Austin</font></div>
            </div>
          </div>
           
          <pre>_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
        </blockquote>
         
        <pre>-- 
Martin Haspelmath (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10   
D-07745 Jena  
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik 
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig    





</pre>
        ,
        <p>_______________________________________________<br>
          Lingtyp mailing list<br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></p>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10   
D-07745 Jena  
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik 
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig    





</pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
David Gil

Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany

Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816

</pre>
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