<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Yes, those are very interesting and I’ve seen a few like that before. I think it highlights an asymmetry in the usual terminology we use to discuss these things: “applicative” is most often defined in terms of syntactic relation (“adds object”) and then sub-typed according to the semantic role of the new argument (benefactive (applicative), instrumental (applicative), etc.), whereas the overwhelmingly most common type of “subject-adder” is called “causative”, which explicitly associates it with a particular semantic role. The origin of the asymmetry is understandable, given the very strong agent-bias languages show for subjects (that is, languages tend overwhelmingly to select as subject or pivot the agent in any event), but it does mean we don’t have a perfectly complementary term for “applicative”.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">David<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 17, 2018, at 10:38 AM, Peter Austin <<a href="mailto:pa2@soas.ac.uk" class="">pa2@soas.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Languages like Balinese and Ngeno-ngene Sasak have constructions that look similar to the applicatives of Bantu etc. in that they involve an affix on the verb and an "added" direct argument, and are alternatives to constructions where the same nominal element is expressed in a prepositional phrase (as an instrument, beneficiary, location etc). However, in both cases, the added/promoted argument is NOT an 'object' but rather a syntactic pivot (= subject) just like the "P-like" argument of a transitive verb. Thus, we are not talking about "promotion to object" but rather "promotion to pivot/subject".<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Is this still an applicative construction?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Peter</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 at 17:29, Martin Haspelmath <<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" class="">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
    But note that "P-like object" is not the same as "primary/direct"
    object.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Beck (2009) cites the following example of a "non-direct
    applicative" in Temne (an Atlantic language of Sierra Leone, data
    from S. Kanu):<br class="">
    
    <div class="m_3201426596706798135page" title="Page 9">
      <div class="m_3201426596706798135layoutArea">
        <div class="m_3201426596706798135column"><p class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">(</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class="">a</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">)
            </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ɔ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class="">-langba </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ɔ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class=""></span> </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic" class="">ləm </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ʌŋ-</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class="">sar
            </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class=""><br class="">
              def</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">-man 3</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">sg.sub
            </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">throw </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">def</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">-stone</span><br class="">
            ‘the man throws the stone’<br class="">
          </p><p class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">
              (</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class="">b</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">)
            </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ɔ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class=""></span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class="">-langba </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ɔ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class=""></span> </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic" class="">l</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic" class="">ə</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic" class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic" class=""></span>m</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">-</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic" class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ʌ</span>nɛ </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ʌŋ</span>-</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class="">sar </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class=""><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ʌ</span></span>-</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic" class="">lan</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic" class="">ϑ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class=""><br class="">
              def</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">-man 3</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">sg.sub
            </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">throw-APPL</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class=""> def</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">-stone
            </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">indef</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'" class="">-sling
              <br class="">
              ‘the man throws the stone with a sling’
            </span> </p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </div>
    
    Here the added instrument P-like because it is coded
    (flagged/indexed) in the same way as a P-argument ('stone' in the
    first example).<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Now one might want to say that 'sling' is a "secondary object" in
    (b), but this can be done only on language-specific grounds (cf.
    David Beck's formulation: "... can be shown to distinguish primary
    from secondary objects").<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Thus, "non-direct applicative" cannot be a general comparative
    concept that is applicable to all languages.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Beck (2009: 540) says that 'sling' in (b) is an "oblique object",
    but only on language-particular grounds ("syntactic relations in
    Temne are indicated by constituent ordering, and the oblique status
    of the applied object is marked by its separation from the verb by
    the direct object"). As a general comparative concept, the term
    "oblique" can only be defined as 'a nominal that is not marked like
    S, A or P', i.e. with respect to the kinds of argument-marking
    devices that can be identified uniformly in all languages.<br class="">
    <br class="">
    As Eitan noted (referring to Witzlack-Makarevich & Bickel):
    There are multiple "argument selectors" that one could look at, but
    only the coding elements (flags and indexes) are readily comparable
    across languages and can serve as a basis for defining comparative
    terms like "applicative".<br class="">
    <br class="">
    Martin<br class="">
    <br class="">
    <div class="m_3201426596706798135moz-cite-prefix">On 17.10.18 17:44, David Beck wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
      
      Hi, all
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">It seems to me that restricting the definition of
        “applicative” to a verbal morpheme that adds a “P-like” or
        (better) “primary or direct” object misses some cases that I,
        for one, would definitely want to call “applicative” and also
        misses out on a taxonomic distinction that could be made in the
        general discussion of valency-increasing affixes that I’ve
        suggested in an article from IJAL (Beck 2009). There I note that
        just as subject/Agent adding morphology (i.e., causatives) can
        either add a P-like (or, better, primary or direct) object,
        there are cases of morphemes that add P-like (primary/direct)
        objects to a verb’s valency and others that add not-P-like
        (secondary/indirect) objects. I would be inclined to call either
        of the latter type an applicative, perhaps the first type a
        “direct” and the second a “non-direct” applicative. Cases of
        non-direct applicatives would be Temne (Kanu 2011) and Upper
        Necaxa Totonac (Beck 2016), neither of which have complex case
        systems but both of which can be shown to distinguish primary
        from secondary objects. I wouldn’t be surprised if people
        working on languages with nominal case could think of morphemes
        that add new event-participants to the valency of a clause that
        are coded with non-direct cases.</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">David</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <div class="">Beck, David. 2009. A taxonomy and typology of
          Lushootseed valency-increasing suffixes. International Journal
          of American Linguistics 75, 533–569.</div>
        <div class="">Beck, David. 2016. Uniqueness and grammatical
          relations in Upper Necaxa Totonac. Linguistics 54, 59–118.</div>
        <div class="">Kanu, Sullay Mohamed. 2012. Valence-increasing
          morphology in Temne. Edmonton: University of Alberta
          dissertation.</div>
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Oct 17, 2018, at 9:04 AM, Martin Haspelmath
              <<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="m_3201426596706798135Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> I think
                the answer to Adam's question is that a construction is
                an applicative only if the new object is coded like the
                P-argument of a basic transitive construction.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Thus, Simon Musgrave's example (1c) from Taba (based on
                Bowden 2001) is an (instrumental) applicative:<br class="">
                <br class="">
                npun-ak kolay peda<br class="">
                kill-APPL snake machete<br class="">
                <br class="">
                But when the instrument 'machete' has its instrumental
                preposition (ada peda 'with a machete'), it is not an
                applicative, from a typological perspective (= as a
                comparative concept).<br class="">
                <br class="">
                There is no "official" definition of the (typological)
                term "applicative", of course, but it is my
                understanding that most people use the term in this way.
                The Wikipedia article reflects this by speaking about
                promotion to "(core) object": <a class="m_3201426596706798135moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicative_voice" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicative_voice</a>.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                (Maria Polinsky's WALS article is vague and speaks just
                about "increasing the number of object arguments by
                one", without making precise what is meant by "object",
                <a class="m_3201426596706798135moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wals.info/chapter/109" target="_blank">https://wals.info/chapter/109</a>.
                But her examples and the discussion make it clear that
                she means objects coded like P-arguments.)<br class="">
                <br class="">
                This does not mean, of course, that the description of
                Taba should not use the term "Applicative" for the
                suffix -ak in all cases – but this would be a
                language-specific descriptive category, somewhat like
                Dative is used in Russian-type languages also when the
                case in question is not used in its definitional
                function (recipient of 'give').<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Best,<br class="">
                Martin<br class="">
                <br class="">
                <br class="">
                <div class="m_3201426596706798135moz-cite-prefix">On 17.10.18 16:45, Adam
                  James Ross Tallman wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130">Hello,</div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130"><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130">I
                      know of some phenomena that is similar to this (I
                      think) in Chácobo and other languages. But I have
                      a question about terminology here. Why is it still
                      an applicative if a (n oblique?) postposition is
                      marked on the "promoted" argument? What are the
                      criteria that identify it as "promoted" in this
                      case (non-repeatability, position in clause
                      etc...). Or is there some type of semantic
                      criterion at work here?</div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130"><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130">best,</div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130"><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130">Adam </div>
                  </div>
                  <br class="">
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="">On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 9:36
                      AM Françoise Rose <<a href="mailto:francoise.rose@univ-lyon2.fr" target="_blank" class="">francoise.rose@univ-lyon2.fr</a>>
                      wrote:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="FR" class="">
                        <div class="m_3201426596706798135m_5483397821248079755WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">Dear Simon,</span></p>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">Thanks for your
                              query, it’s very interesting. </span></p>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">I just gave a talk
                              at SWL8 on an applicative construction of
                              Mojeño that is correlated with the
                              presence of verbal classifiers that refer
                              to a location. When such a verbal
                              classifier is present, the “coreferential”
                              NP can be expressed as an object rather
                              than an oblique (i.e. it loses its
                              preposition, as in the second example
                              below). Interestingly, there is some
                              variation. The preposition can be
                              maintained in the locative phrase, even
                              when the verbal classifier is present, but
                              there is then no valency change (so the
                              construction does not count as an
                              applicative). Intransitive verbs take a 3<sup class="">rd</sup> person subject
                              t-prefix, while transitive verbs take some
                              semantically more specific prefixes for 3<sup class="">rd</sup> person when the object
                              is third person also (as in the second
                              example). So this case is not exactly what
                              you were looking for, but the presence of
                              three alternates here is interesting: the
                              construction of example 3 could well be an
                              intermediate step in the development of
                              the applicative effect of classifiers.</span></p>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div>
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                                <td style="width:196.55pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="262" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">t-junopo=po</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:80.85pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="108" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">te</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:80.85pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="108" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">to</span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:100.8pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="134" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">smeno</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                              <tr style="height:25.55pt" class="">
                                <td style="width:196.55pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="262" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">3-run=pfv</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:80.85pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="108" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">prep</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:80.85pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="108" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">art.nh</span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:100.8pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="134" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">woods</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                              <tr style="height:37.85pt" class="">
                                <td colspan="4" style="width:459.05pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:37.85pt" valign="top" width="612" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">'S/he ran <b class="">to/in/from</b> the
                                      woods.'</span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                            </tbody>
                          </table>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div>
                          <table class="m_3201426596706798135m_5483397821248079755MsoNormalTable" style="width:447.0pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="0" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
                            <tbody class="">
                              <tr style="height:22.35pt" class="">
                                <td style="width:269.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="359" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_3201426596706798135_m_5483397821248079755__MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">ñi-jumpo<b class="">-je</b>-cho</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:96.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="128" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">to</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:82.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="109" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">smeno</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                              <tr style="height:22.35pt" class="">
                                <td style="width:269.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="359" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">3m-run<b class="">-clf:interior</b>-act</span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:96.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="128" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">art.nh</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:82.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="109" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">woods</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                              <tr style="height:22.35pt" class="">
                                <td colspan="3" style="width:447.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="596" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">S/he runs <b class="">inside</b> the woods.</span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                            </tbody>
                          </table>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div>
                          <table class="m_3201426596706798135m_5483397821248079755MsoNormalTable" style="width:530.0pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="0" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
                            <tbody class="">
                              <tr style="height:22.35pt" class="">
                                <td style="width:276.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="368" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">t-jumpo<b class="">-je</b>-cho</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:75.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="100" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">te</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:97.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="129" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">to</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:82.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="109" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">smeno</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                              <tr style="height:22.35pt" class="">
                                <td style="width:276.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="368" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">3-run<b class="">-clf:interior</b>-act</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:75.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="100" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">prep</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:97.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="129" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">art.nh</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                                <td style="width:82.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="109" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">woods</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""></span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                              <tr style="height:22.35pt" class="">
                                <td colspan="4" style="width:530.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="707" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">S/he ran
                                      inside the woods.</span></p>
                                </td>
                              </tr>
                            </tbody>
                          </table>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">The slides from my
                              presentation can be downloaded from SWL8
                              website.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class="">Very best,</span></p>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Françoise ROSE</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Directrice de Recherches 2<sup class="">ème</sup> classe, CNRS</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Laboratoire Dynamique Du Langage
                              (CNRS/Université Lyon2)</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">16 avenue Berthelot</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">69007 Lyon</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">FRANCE</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">(33)4 72 72 64 63</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f4e79" class=""><a href="http://www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE" target="_blank" class="">www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE</a></span><i class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f4e79" class=""></span></i></p>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div>
                          <div class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""> Lingtyp [mailto:<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>]
                              <b class="">De la part de</b> Simon
                              Musgrave<br class="">
                              <b class="">Envoyé :</b> mercredi 17
                              octobre 2018 07:16<br class="">
                              <b class="">À :</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class="">
                              <b class="">Objet :</b> [Lingtyp]
                              Applicative and preposition</span></p>
                          <div class=""> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Lingtyp
                                  members,</p>
                              </div>
                              <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
                                  I am posting this query on behalf of
                                  one of my PhD students. We will post a
                                  summary of responses in due course.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  From existing studies of applicatives,
                                  only two Austronesian languages, Taba
                                  and Indonesian, have been documented
                                  to unexpectedly retain a preposition
                                  when an applicative affix is used to
                                  promote a previously non-core object
                                  to core. <br class="">
                                  Bowden, in his grammatical description
                                  of Taba (2001), states that it is
                                  possible for the same idea to be
                                  expressed using three possibilities.
                                  Firstly, that the third entity is
                                  introduced by a preposition, secondly
                                  that the applied object is marked by
                                  an applicative morpheme and thirdly
                                  that the applied object can be marked
                                  by an applicative morpheme and
                                  preposition, as the following examples
                                  show. <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  (1)a.    Ahmad    npun    kolay    <br class="">
                                      Ahmad    3SG=kill    snake    <br class="">
                                      ‘Ahmad killed a snake.’    <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  b.    Ahmad    npun    kolay    ada   
                                  peda    PREPOSITION<br class="">
                                      Ahmad    3SG=kill    snake   
                                  with    machete    <br class="">
                                      ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a
                                  machete.’    <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  c.    Ahmad    npunak    kolay   
                                  peda    APPLICATIVE<br class="">
                                      Ahmad    3SG=kill-APPL    snake   
                                  machete    <br class="">
                                      ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a
                                  machete.’    <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                      d.    Ahmad    npunak    kolay   
                                  ada    peda    BOTH<br class="">
                                      Ahmad    3SG=kill-APPL    snake   
                                  with    machete    <br class="">
                                      ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a
                                  machete.’    (2001:204)<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Sometimes Indonesian clauses with
                                  applicative verbs suffixed with –kan
                                  retain the preposition directly
                                  following the verb when it is expected
                                  to have been lost according to
                                  conventional grammar rules, as shown
                                  in 2. <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  (2)a.    Yang    penting    saya   
                                  sangat    men-cinta-i    Sandy    <br class="">
                                      REL    important    1SG    very   
                                  meN.love.APPL    Sandy    <br class="">
                                      dan     meny-enang-kan    atas   
                                  semua    ke-jadi-an    itu    <br class="">
                                          meN-senang-kan               
                                      <br class="">
                                      and    meN-pity-APPL    on   
                                  all    event    that    <br class="">
                                      ‘What is important is that I love
                                  Sandy and regret everything that
                                  happened.’     (Musgrave 2001:156)<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                      b.    Kami    juga    sudah   
                                  mem-bicara-kan    dengan    
                                  pem-erintah     pusat<br class="">
                                      2PL    also    already   
                                  meN-talk-APPL    with    government   
                                  central<br class="">
                                      di     Jakarta    soal   
                                  rencana    men-ambah    beasiswa   
                                  Jerman<br class="">
                                      in    Jakarta    matter    plan   
                                  meN-increase    scholarship    German<br class="">
                                      untuk    Indonesia…               
                                  <br class="">
                                      for    Indonesia                <br class="">
                                      ‘We have also spoken with the
                                  central government in Jakarta about
                                  the plan to increase German
                                  scholarships to Indonesia.’     
                                  (Quasthoff & Gottwald 2012:
                                  indmix_565272)<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Previous studies of Indonesian have
                                  noted the co-occurrence of
                                  applicatives and prepositions and have
                                  usually made passing comments often
                                  speculating that this feature is
                                  prevalent in non-standard Indonesian.
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Our query is whether any list
                                  subscribers know of other languages
                                  which show this phenomenon and has
                                  anyone written about it? </p>
                              </div>
                              <div class="">
                                <div class=""> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance
                                  for any information which you can
                                  share!</p>
                              </div>
                              <div class="">
                                <div class=""> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Best, Simon</p>
                              </div>
                              <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
                                  References <br class="">
                                  Bowden, John. 2001. Taba: Description
                                  of a South Halmahera language.
                                  Canberra: Pacific Linguistics.<br class="">
                                  Musgrave, Simon. 2001. Non-subject
                                  arguments in Indonesian. The
                                  University of Melbourne. (PhD thesis).<br class="">
                                  Quasthoff, Uwe & Sebastian
                                  Gottwald. 2012. Leipzig corpus
                                  collection. (Ed.) Uwe Quasthoff &
                                  Gerhard Heyer. University of Leipzig.
                                  <a href="http://corpora2.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/" target="_blank" class="">http://corpora2.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/</a>.</p>
                              </div>
                              <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
                                  -- </p>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div class="">
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div class="">
                                              <div class="">
                                                <div class="">
                                                  <div class=""><p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt" class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222" class="">-- </span><span style="color:#60666d" class=""></span></p>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div class="">
                                                        <div class="">
                                                          <div class="">
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span class="">Simon Musgrave  </span></b><span class="">                </span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span class="">Lecturer</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span class="">School of Languages, Literatures,
                                                          Cultures and
                                                          Linguistics</span></b></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Monash University</span></p>
                                                          </div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">VIC 3800</span></p>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Australia</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">
                                                          <div class=""> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">T: +61 3 9905 8234                   
                                                            </span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">E: <a href="mailto:name.surname@monash.edu" target="_blank" class="">
simon.musgrave@monash.edu</a></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><a href="http://monash.edu/" target="_blank" class="">monash.edu</a></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div class="">
                                                          <div class=""> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div class=""> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Secretary,

                                                      Australasian
                                                      Association for
                                                      the Digital
                                                      Humanities (<a href="http://aa-dh.org/" target="_blank" class="">aaDH</a>)</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
                                                      <a href="http://profiles.arts.monash.edu.au/simon-musgrave/" target="_blank" class="">Official

                                                        page</a><br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
                                                      <br class="">
                                                    </p>
                                                    <div class="">
                                                      <div class=""> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
                                                      </div>
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                            </div>
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                      </div>
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                  -- <br class="">
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                                <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div dir="ltr" class=""><font face="monospace,
                                        monospace" class="">Adam J.R. Tallman</font>
                                      <div class=""><font face="monospace, monospace" class="">Investigador

                                          del Museo de Etnografía y
                                          Folklore, la Paz<br class="">
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                                        <div class=""><font face="monospace, monospace" class="">PhD,

                                            UT Austin</font></div>
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</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <br class="">
                <pre class="m_3201426596706798135moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="m_3201426596706798135moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10   
D-07745 Jena  
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik 
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig    





</pre>
              </div>
              _______________________________________________<br class="">
              Lingtyp mailing list<br class="">
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      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br class="">
    <pre class="m_3201426596706798135moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="m_3201426596706798135moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10   
D-07745 Jena  
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik 
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig    





</pre>
  </div>

_______________________________________________<br class="">
Lingtyp mailing list<br class="">
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Prof Peter K. Austin<br class="">Marit Rausing Chair in Field Linguistics</div><div class="">MA Convenor (Term 1, 2018-19)<br class="">Foundation Editor, EL Publishing</div><div class="">Treasurer, Philological Society<br class="">Department of Linguistics, SOAS<br class="">Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square<br class="">London WC1H 0XG<br class="">United Kingdom<br class=""><br class="">Homepage: <a href="https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff30592.php" target="_blank" class="">https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff30592.php</a><br class="">Publishing: <a href="http://elpublishing.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://elpublishing.org/</a><br class="">Training: <a href="http://el-training.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://el-training.org</a><br class="">Blog: <a href="http://el-blog.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://el-blog.org</a><br class="">Humanities Commons: <a href="https://hcommons.org/members/pkaustin/" target="_blank" class="">https://hcommons.org/members/pkaustin/</a><br class="">Academia: <a href="https://soas.academia.edu/PeterAustin" target="_blank" class="">https://soas.academia.edu/PeterAustin</a><br class="">ResearchGate: <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Austin2" target="_blank" class="">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Austin2</a><br class="">ResearcherID: <a href="http://www.researcherid.com/rid/P-5066-2014" target="_blank" class="">http://www.researcherid.com/rid/P-5066-2014</a><br class="">ORCID: <a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-3180-0524" target="_blank" class="">http://orcid.org/0000-0002-3180-0524</a><br class="">Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/peterkaustin" target="_blank" class="">https://twitter.com/peterkaustin</a><br class="">Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pkaustin" target="_blank" class="">https://www.facebook.com/pkaustin</a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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