<div dir="ltr">Languages like Balinese and Ngeno-ngene Sasak have constructions that look similar to the applicatives of Bantu etc. in that they involve an affix on the verb and an "added" direct argument, and are alternatives to constructions where the same nominal element is expressed in a prepositional phrase (as an instrument, beneficiary, location etc). However, in both cases, the added/promoted argument is NOT an 'object' but rather a syntactic pivot (= subject) just like the "P-like" argument of a transitive verb. Thus, we are not talking about "promotion to object" but rather "promotion to pivot/subject".<div><br></div><div>Is this still an applicative construction?</div><div><br></div><div>Peter</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 at 17:29, Martin Haspelmath <<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
But note that "P-like object" is not the same as "primary/direct"
object.<br>
<br>
Beck (2009) cites the following example of a "non-direct
applicative" in Temne (an Atlantic language of Sierra Leone, data
from S. Kanu):<br>
<div class="m_3201426596706798135page" title="Page 9">
<div class="m_3201426596706798135layoutArea">
<div class="m_3201426596706798135column">
<p><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">(</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic">a</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">)
</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ɔ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic">-langba </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic"><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ɔ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic"></span> </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic">ləm </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ʌŋ-</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic">sar
</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'"><br>
def</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">-man 3</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">sg.sub
</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">throw </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">def</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">-stone</span><br>
‘the man throws the stone’<br>
</p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">
(</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic">b</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">)
</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ɔ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic"></span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic">-langba </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic"><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ɔ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic"></span> </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic">l</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic">ə</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic"><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic"></span>m</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">-</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-weight:700;font-style:italic"><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ʌ</span>nɛ </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic"><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ʌŋ</span>-</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic">sar </span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic"><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic"><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ʌ</span></span>-</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis';font-style:italic">lan</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'Phonetic';font-style:italic">ϑ</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'"><br>
def</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">-man 3</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">sg.sub
</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">throw-APPL</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'"> def</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">-stone
</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">indef</span><span style="font-size:10.000000pt;font-family:'TimesEis'">-sling
<br>
‘the man throws the stone with a sling’
</span> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
Here the added instrument P-like because it is coded
(flagged/indexed) in the same way as a P-argument ('stone' in the
first example).<br>
<br>
Now one might want to say that 'sling' is a "secondary object" in
(b), but this can be done only on language-specific grounds (cf.
David Beck's formulation: "... can be shown to distinguish primary
from secondary objects").<br>
<br>
Thus, "non-direct applicative" cannot be a general comparative
concept that is applicable to all languages.<br>
<br>
Beck (2009: 540) says that 'sling' in (b) is an "oblique object",
but only on language-particular grounds ("syntactic relations in
Temne are indicated by constituent ordering, and the oblique status
of the applied object is marked by its separation from the verb by
the direct object"). As a general comparative concept, the term
"oblique" can only be defined as 'a nominal that is not marked like
S, A or P', i.e. with respect to the kinds of argument-marking
devices that can be identified uniformly in all languages.<br>
<br>
As Eitan noted (referring to Witzlack-Makarevich & Bickel):
There are multiple "argument selectors" that one could look at, but
only the coding elements (flags and indexes) are readily comparable
across languages and can serve as a basis for defining comparative
terms like "applicative".<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div class="m_3201426596706798135moz-cite-prefix">On 17.10.18 17:44, David Beck wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
Hi, all
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It seems to me that restricting the definition of
“applicative” to a verbal morpheme that adds a “P-like” or
(better) “primary or direct” object misses some cases that I,
for one, would definitely want to call “applicative” and also
misses out on a taxonomic distinction that could be made in the
general discussion of valency-increasing affixes that I’ve
suggested in an article from IJAL (Beck 2009). There I note that
just as subject/Agent adding morphology (i.e., causatives) can
either add a P-like (or, better, primary or direct) object,
there are cases of morphemes that add P-like (primary/direct)
objects to a verb’s valency and others that add not-P-like
(secondary/indirect) objects. I would be inclined to call either
of the latter type an applicative, perhaps the first type a
“direct” and the second a “non-direct” applicative. Cases of
non-direct applicatives would be Temne (Kanu 2011) and Upper
Necaxa Totonac (Beck 2016), neither of which have complex case
systems but both of which can be shown to distinguish primary
from secondary objects. I wouldn’t be surprised if people
working on languages with nominal case could think of morphemes
that add new event-participants to the valency of a clause that
are coded with non-direct cases.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Beck, David. 2009. A taxonomy and typology of
Lushootseed valency-increasing suffixes. International Journal
of American Linguistics 75, 533–569.</div>
<div>Beck, David. 2016. Uniqueness and grammatical
relations in Upper Necaxa Totonac. Linguistics 54, 59–118.</div>
<div>Kanu, Sullay Mohamed. 2012. Valence-increasing
morphology in Temne. Edmonton: University of Alberta
dissertation.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Oct 17, 2018, at 9:04 AM, Martin Haspelmath
<<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="m_3201426596706798135Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> I think
the answer to Adam's question is that a construction is
an applicative only if the new object is coded like the
P-argument of a basic transitive construction.<br>
<br>
Thus, Simon Musgrave's example (1c) from Taba (based on
Bowden 2001) is an (instrumental) applicative:<br>
<br>
npun-ak kolay peda<br>
kill-APPL snake machete<br>
<br>
But when the instrument 'machete' has its instrumental
preposition (ada peda 'with a machete'), it is not an
applicative, from a typological perspective (= as a
comparative concept).<br>
<br>
There is no "official" definition of the (typological)
term "applicative", of course, but it is my
understanding that most people use the term in this way.
The Wikipedia article reflects this by speaking about
promotion to "(core) object": <a class="m_3201426596706798135moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicative_voice" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicative_voice</a>.<br>
<br>
(Maria Polinsky's WALS article is vague and speaks just
about "increasing the number of object arguments by
one", without making precise what is meant by "object",
<a class="m_3201426596706798135moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wals.info/chapter/109" target="_blank">https://wals.info/chapter/109</a>.
But her examples and the discussion make it clear that
she means objects coded like P-arguments.)<br>
<br>
This does not mean, of course, that the description of
Taba should not use the term "Applicative" for the
suffix -ak in all cases – but this would be a
language-specific descriptive category, somewhat like
Dative is used in Russian-type languages also when the
case in question is not used in its definitional
function (recipient of 'give').<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_3201426596706798135moz-cite-prefix">On 17.10.18 16:45, Adam
James Ross Tallman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130">Hello,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130">I
know of some phenomena that is similar to this (I
think) in Chácobo and other languages. But I have
a question about terminology here. Why is it still
an applicative if a (n oblique?) postposition is
marked on the "promoted" argument? What are the
criteria that identify it as "promoted" in this
case (non-repeatability, position in clause
etc...). Or is there some type of semantic
criterion at work here?</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130">best,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;color:#4c1130">Adam </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 9:36
AM Françoise Rose <<a href="mailto:francoise.rose@univ-lyon2.fr" target="_blank">francoise.rose@univ-lyon2.fr</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="FR">
<div class="m_3201426596706798135m_5483397821248079755WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Dear Simon,</span></p>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Thanks for your
query, it’s very interesting. </span></p>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">I just gave a talk
at SWL8 on an applicative construction of
Mojeño that is correlated with the
presence of verbal classifiers that refer
to a location. When such a verbal
classifier is present, the “coreferential”
NP can be expressed as an object rather
than an oblique (i.e. it loses its
preposition, as in the second example
below). Interestingly, there is some
variation. The preposition can be
maintained in the locative phrase, even
when the verbal classifier is present, but
there is then no valency change (so the
construction does not count as an
applicative). Intransitive verbs take a 3<sup>rd</sup> person subject
t-prefix, while transitive verbs take some
semantically more specific prefixes for 3<sup>rd</sup> person when the object
is third person also (as in the second
example). So this case is not exactly what
you were looking for, but the presence of
three alternates here is interesting: the
construction of example 3 could well be an
intermediate step in the development of
the applicative effect of classifiers.</span></p>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<table class="m_3201426596706798135m_5483397821248079755MsoNormalTable" style="width:459.05pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="0" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr style="height:25.55pt">
<td style="width:196.55pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="262">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">t-junopo=po</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:80.85pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="108">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">te</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:80.85pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="108">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">to</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:100.8pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="134">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">smeno</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:25.55pt">
<td style="width:196.55pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="262">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">3-run=pfv</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:80.85pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="108">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">prep</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:80.85pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="108">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">art.nh</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:100.8pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:25.55pt" valign="top" width="134">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">woods</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:37.85pt">
<td colspan="4" style="width:459.05pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:37.85pt" valign="top" width="612">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">'S/he ran <b>to/in/from</b> the
woods.'</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<table class="m_3201426596706798135m_5483397821248079755MsoNormalTable" style="width:447.0pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="0" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr style="height:22.35pt">
<td style="width:269.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="359">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_3201426596706798135_m_5483397821248079755__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">ñi-jumpo<b>-je</b>-cho</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:96.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="128">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">to</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:82.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="109">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">smeno</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:22.35pt">
<td style="width:269.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="359">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">3m-run<b>-clf:interior</b>-act</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:96.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="128">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">art.nh</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:82.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="109">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">woods</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:22.35pt">
<td colspan="3" style="width:447.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="596">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">S/he runs <b>inside</b> the woods.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<table class="m_3201426596706798135m_5483397821248079755MsoNormalTable" style="width:530.0pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="0" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr style="height:22.35pt">
<td style="width:276.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="368">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">t-jumpo<b>-je</b>-cho</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:75.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="100">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">te</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:97.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="129">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">to</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:82.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="109">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">smeno</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:22.35pt">
<td style="width:276.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="368">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">3-run<b>-clf:interior</b>-act</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:75.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="100">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">prep</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:97.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="129">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">art.nh</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:82.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="109">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">woods</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:22.35pt">
<td colspan="4" style="width:530.0pt;padding:.75pt 5.75pt 0cm 5.75pt;height:22.35pt" valign="top" width="707">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">S/he ran
inside the woods.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">The slides from my
presentation can be downloaded from SWL8
website.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Very best,</span></p>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Françoise ROSE</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Directrice de Recherches 2<sup>ème</sup> classe, CNRS</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Laboratoire Dynamique Du Langage
(CNRS/Université Lyon2)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">16 avenue Berthelot</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">69007 Lyon</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">FRANCE</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">(33)4 72 72 64 63</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f4e79"><a href="http://www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE" target="_blank">www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE</a></span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f4e79"></span></i></p>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lingtyp [mailto:<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Simon
Musgrave<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 17
octobre 2018 07:16<br>
<b>À :</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Objet :</b> [Lingtyp]
Applicative and preposition</span></p>
<div> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Lingtyp
members,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
I am posting this query on behalf of
one of my PhD students. We will post a
summary of responses in due course.<br>
<br>
From existing studies of applicatives,
only two Austronesian languages, Taba
and Indonesian, have been documented
to unexpectedly retain a preposition
when an applicative affix is used to
promote a previously non-core object
to core. <br>
Bowden, in his grammatical description
of Taba (2001), states that it is
possible for the same idea to be
expressed using three possibilities.
Firstly, that the third entity is
introduced by a preposition, secondly
that the applied object is marked by
an applicative morpheme and thirdly
that the applied object can be marked
by an applicative morpheme and
preposition, as the following examples
show. <br>
<br>
(1)a. Ahmad npun kolay <br>
Ahmad 3SG=kill snake <br>
‘Ahmad killed a snake.’ <br>
<br>
b. Ahmad npun kolay ada
peda PREPOSITION<br>
Ahmad 3SG=kill snake
with machete <br>
‘Ahmad killed a snake with a
machete.’ <br>
<br>
c. Ahmad npunak kolay
peda APPLICATIVE<br>
Ahmad 3SG=kill-APPL snake
machete <br>
‘Ahmad killed a snake with a
machete.’ <br>
<br>
d. Ahmad npunak kolay
ada peda BOTH<br>
Ahmad 3SG=kill-APPL snake
with machete <br>
‘Ahmad killed a snake with a
machete.’ (2001:204)<br>
<br>
<br>
Sometimes Indonesian clauses with
applicative verbs suffixed with –kan
retain the preposition directly
following the verb when it is expected
to have been lost according to
conventional grammar rules, as shown
in 2. <br>
<br>
(2)a. Yang penting saya
sangat men-cinta-i Sandy <br>
REL important 1SG very
meN.love.APPL Sandy <br>
dan meny-enang-kan atas
semua ke-jadi-an itu <br>
meN-senang-kan
<br>
and meN-pity-APPL on
all event that <br>
‘What is important is that I love
Sandy and regret everything that
happened.’ (Musgrave 2001:156)<br>
<br>
b. Kami juga sudah
mem-bicara-kan dengan
pem-erintah pusat<br>
2PL also already
meN-talk-APPL with government
central<br>
di Jakarta soal
rencana men-ambah beasiswa
Jerman<br>
in Jakarta matter plan
meN-increase scholarship German<br>
untuk Indonesia…
<br>
for Indonesia <br>
‘We have also spoken with the
central government in Jakarta about
the plan to increase German
scholarships to Indonesia.’
(Quasthoff & Gottwald 2012:
indmix_565272)<br>
<br>
<br>
Previous studies of Indonesian have
noted the co-occurrence of
applicatives and prepositions and have
usually made passing comments often
speculating that this feature is
prevalent in non-standard Indonesian.
<br>
<br>
Our query is whether any list
subscribers know of other languages
which show this phenomenon and has
anyone written about it? </p>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance
for any information which you can
share!</p>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best, Simon</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
References <br>
Bowden, John. 2001. Taba: Description
of a South Halmahera language.
Canberra: Pacific Linguistics.<br>
Musgrave, Simon. 2001. Non-subject
arguments in Indonesian. The
University of Melbourne. (PhD thesis).<br>
Quasthoff, Uwe & Sebastian
Gottwald. 2012. Leipzig corpus
collection. (Ed.) Uwe Quasthoff &
Gerhard Heyer. University of Leipzig.
<a href="http://corpora2.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/" target="_blank">http://corpora2.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/</a>.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
-- </p>
<div>
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<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">-- </span><span style="color:#60666d"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>Simon Musgrave </span></b><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>Lecturer</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>School of Languages, Literatures,
Cultures and
Linguistics</span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Monash University</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>VIC 3800</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Australia</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br class="m_3201426596706798135webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>T: +61 3 9905 8234
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>E: <a href="mailto:name.surname@monash.edu" target="_blank">
simon.musgrave@monash.edu</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="http://monash.edu/" target="_blank">monash.edu</a></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Secretary,
Australasian
Association for
the Digital
Humanities (<a href="http://aa-dh.org/" target="_blank">aaDH</a>)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<a href="http://profiles.arts.monash.edu.au/simon-musgrave/" target="_blank">Official
page</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="m_3201426596706798135gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>
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<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="monospace,
monospace">Adam J.R. Tallman</font>
<div><font face="monospace, monospace">Investigador
del Museo de Etnografía y
Folklore, la Paz<br>
</font>
<div><font face="monospace, monospace">PhD,
UT Austin</font></div>
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<br>
<fieldset class="m_3201426596706798135mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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</pre>
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<br>
<pre class="m_3201426596706798135moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="m_3201426596706798135moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig
</pre>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_3201426596706798135moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="m_3201426596706798135moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig
</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Prof Peter K. Austin<br>Marit Rausing Chair in Field Linguistics</div><div>MA Convenor (Term 1, 2018-19)<br>Foundation Editor, EL Publishing</div><div>Treasurer, Philological Society<br>Department of Linguistics, SOAS<br>Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square<br>London WC1H 0XG<br>United Kingdom<br><br>Homepage: <a href="https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff30592.php" target="_blank">https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff30592.php</a><br>Publishing: <a href="http://elpublishing.org/" target="_blank">http://elpublishing.org/</a><br>Training: <a href="http://el-training.org" target="_blank">http://el-training.org</a><br>Blog: <a href="http://el-blog.org" target="_blank">http://el-blog.org</a><br>Humanities Commons: <a href="https://hcommons.org/members/pkaustin/" target="_blank">https://hcommons.org/members/pkaustin/</a><br>Academia: <a href="https://soas.academia.edu/PeterAustin" target="_blank">https://soas.academia.edu/PeterAustin</a><br>ResearchGate: <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Austin2" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Austin2</a><br>ResearcherID: <a href="http://www.researcherid.com/rid/P-5066-2014" target="_blank">http://www.researcherid.com/rid/P-5066-2014</a><br>ORCID: <a href="http://orcid.org/0000-0002-3180-0524" target="_blank">http://orcid.org/0000-0002-3180-0524</a><br>Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/peterkaustin" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/peterkaustin</a><br>Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pkaustin" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/pkaustin</a><br><br><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>