<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Sorry, the free translation of the relevant clause should have been “we are all (or both) human (ma)”<div><br></div><div>(My ing-gu-ri-shu not so good ma)</div><div><br></div><div>Randy<br><div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On 5 Dec 2018, at 8:51 AM, Randy J. LaPolla <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">Dear Vladimir,<div class="">In Mandarin Chinese there is a final particle ma (嘛, not the same as the question marking final particle mā 吗) that is often used when reminding or telling someone information that should be obvious or known already.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: "PingFang TC", "Heiti TC", "Noto Sans", "Source Han Sans", Verdana, Helvetica, "Microsoft YaHei", "Microsoft JhengHei", sans-serif; font-size: 17px; background-color: rgb(246, 246, 246);" class="">男人真心話：哎喲，我們都是人嘛，妳會怕獨處，我當然也會怕，只是我沒有說出口而已</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(246, 246, 246);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="PingFang TC, Heiti TC, Noto Sans, Source Han Sans, Verdana, Helvetica, Microsoft YaHei, Microsoft JhengHei, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 17px;" class="">………………………women dou shi ren ma………………………………………………….</span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(246, 246, 246);" class=""><font color="#333333" face="PingFang TC, Heiti TC, Noto Sans, Source Han Sans, Verdana, Helvetica, Microsoft YaHei, Microsoft JhengHei, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 17px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> 1pl all COP human MA</span></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(246, 246, 246);" class="">The heart-felt words of a man: Ai (sigh), we are all people (ma), you(F) will be afraid to be alone, I of course also will be afraid, it is just that I have not said it, that's all.</span></div><div class=""><font color="#333333" face="PingFang TC, Heiti TC, Noto Sans, Source Han Sans, Verdana, Helvetica, Microsoft YaHei, Microsoft JhengHei, sans-serif" class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(246, 246, 246);" class=""><span style="font-size: 17px;" class="">(<a href="http://womany.net/read/article/3804" class="">http://womany.net/read/article/3804</a>)</span></span></font></div><div class=""><font color="#333333" face="PingFang TC, Heiti TC, Noto Sans, Source Han Sans, Verdana, Helvetica, Microsoft YaHei, Microsoft JhengHei, sans-serif" class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(246, 246, 246);" class=""><span style="font-size: 17px;" class=""><br class=""></span></span></font></div><div class=""><font color="#333333" face="PingFang TC, Heiti TC, Noto Sans, Source Han Sans, Verdana, Helvetica, Microsoft YaHei, Microsoft JhengHei, sans-serif" class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(246, 246, 246);" class=""><span style="font-size: 17px;" class="">Randy<br class=""></span></span></font><div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">-----</span></span><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class=""><b class="">Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA</b> （羅</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white; font-size: 13px;" class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Song">仁地</font></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">）</span></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class=""><font color="#222222" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2" class="">Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School of Humanities </font></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.333333015441895px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Nanyang Technological University</span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class="">HSS-03-45, 14 Nanyang Drive </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.333333015441895px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: -webkit-auto;" class="">| </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class="">Singapore 637332</span></span></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto; background-color: white; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class=""><a href="http://randylapolla.net/" class="">http://randylapolla.net/</a></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class="">Most recent books:</span></span></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class=""><i class="">The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (</i>2017)</span></span></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class=""><font color="#222222" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2" class=""><a href="https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324" class="">https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324</a></font></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class=""><font color="#222222" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2" class=""><i class="">Sino-Tibetan Linguistics </i>(2018)</font></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><span class="" style="background-color: white;"><font color="#222222" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2" class=""><a href="https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397" class="" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397</a></font></span></div><div class=""><span class="" style="background-color: white;"><br class=""></span></div></div></div></span></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 5 Dec 2018, at 12:39 AM, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">Dear Vladimir,<br class="">
</p><p class="">Malay/Indonesian has such particles.</p><p class="">In Riau Indonesian, Jakarta Indonesian, and several other
varieties, your S2 would be rendered as</p><p class="">(1) <i class="">K</i><i class="">an hari minggu</i><br class="">
PRT day Sunday</p><p class="">in which <i class="">kan</i> has exactly the function that you describe.
In other contexts, the same particle <i class="">kan</i> has additonal
functions, including that of a yes/no tag. Its origin is in a
reduced form of the negator <i class="">bukan</i>.</p><p class="">In Papuan Malay, your S2 would be rendered as</p><p class="">(2) <i class="">Hari minggu to<br class="">
</i> day Sunday PRT<br class="">
<br class="">
where the same function is borne by the particle <i class="">to</i>. I
have heard at least two proposed etymologies for <i class="">to</i>: (a)
the Dutch particle <i class="">toch </i>(which I am skeptical about), and
(b) the Malay word <i class="">tau</i> 'know'. I also have my own idea,
namely that it comes from the Malay/indonesian word <i class="">atau</i>
'or' (ultimately from Sanskrit) — but I'm still not sure which of
the etymologies is the best ...</p><p class="">David<br class="">
</p>
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/12/2018 00:03, Vladimir Panov
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CALeR4d6+Pk8-5bsORKEApoXUCkULcdxqDvupzwN0UjHAFMMcGg@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Dear collegues,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In some languages of Europe (e.g. Russian and German) there
are special markers ("particles") that have among their core
functions the one of "reminding" the hearer of some common
background information that s/he is expected to share with the
speaker.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Russian:</div>
<div class="">S1: Magazin zakryt.</div>
<div class=""> shop closed</div>
<div class=""> The shop is closed</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">S2: Konečno, segodnia <i class="">že</i> voskresen'je</div>
<div class=""> of.course today PRT Sunday</div>
<div class=""> Of course, (you know that) today is Sunday.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In Russian, <i class="">že</i> has some other prominent functions
as well. A very similar meaning is also provided by the
sentence-initial <i class="">ved'</i> ("common ground" is its core
meaning). For German, the particles <i class="">ja </i>and, to a
certain extent, <i class="">doch</i> are often descirbed in similar
terms. For both German and Russian, these particles have been
extensively studied.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Markers having this meaning as at least one of the
prominent ones are found in many languages the Circum-Baltic
region, Eastern and Northern Europe, Finno-Ugric languages of
the European part of Russia. However, they seem to be rare or
even absent in Romance languages (but are present in Latin),
the rest of West Germanic languages and in the Balkans.
Arguably, the overt marking of this meaning may be considered
an areal feature of this particular macroregion.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I would like to ask if anyone is aware of languages beyond
Europe that have this type of markers. I am mostly interested
in the rest of Eurasia, but not only.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thank you,</div>
<div class="">Vladimir Panov</div>
<div class="">(Vilnius University / Russian Academy of Sciences)</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br class="">
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
</pre>
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