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<div>Dear colleague, </div><div>here follows something from Albanian</div><div><span><p class="ydp77cfd396MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">In Albanian, there is
a verb, referring to success, in a dative subject construction "ec" (<i>walk)</i></span></p>
<p class="ydp77cfd396MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">1. Atij i eci</span></i></p>
<p class="ydp77cfd396MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">(He - dative) clitic 3d, Sing, dative walk 3d, Sing, Past</span></p>
<div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">It is considered as an
expression, meaning – “luck worked for him”. The subject is often missing but well established though: <i>luck, things, work</i></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i><br></i></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>Compared to the above, there is an alternative success-relating construction</i></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i><br></i></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i>2. Ai ia doli mbane (He made it)</i></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">which emphasizes that success relates to the effort of the subject. But the former implies that "luck came to him"</span></div>
<p class="ydp77cfd396MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
<p class="ydp77cfd396MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">There is another similar construction like 1),
with movement verb again, "shkoj" (<i>go</i>)</span></p>
<p class="ydp77cfd396MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">3. Atij i
shkojne
punet mbare</span></i></p>
<div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">(He - dative) clitic 3d, Sing, dative go
3d, plural works/things well/successfully</span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Edmond Cane</span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Lecturer, Albanian Language</span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Beijing International Studies University</span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br></span></div></span><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Thursday, January 3, 2019, 6:34:38 PM GMT+8, lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">Send Lingtyp mailing list submissions to<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">You can reach the person managing the list at<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:lingtyp-owner@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp-owner@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br></div><div dir="ltr">than "Re: Contents of Lingtyp digest..."<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1. Re: Verbs of success with dative subject (Ludwig Paul)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 2. Re: Verbs of success with dative subject (E. Bashir)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 3. Re: Verbs of success with dative subject (Jussi Ylikoski)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 4. Re: Verbs of success with dative subject (Eitan Grossman)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 5. PUT=LET GO: An areal feature? (Joo Ian)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 6. Re: PUT=LET GO: An areal feature? (Guillaume Jacques)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 7. Re: Verbs of success with dative subject (Guillaume Jacques)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> 8. Re: PUT=LET GO: An areal feature? (Mark W. Post)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2019 20:46:25 +0100<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Ludwig Paul <<a href="mailto:ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:20190102204625.Horde.UgmgqlMueP2wGD3Kt8ynNVW@webmail.rrz.uni-hamburg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">20190102204625.Horde.UgmgqlMueP2wGD3Kt8ynNVW@webmail.rrz.uni-hamburg.de</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"> <br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Dear Spike,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I could not find the discussion or the answers to your question in the <br></div><div dir="ltr">list, maybe this is a repetition: there is the German verbal <br></div><div dir="ltr">expression "mir (Dat.) gelingt etwas", i.e. I am successful in (doing) <br></div><div dir="ltr">sth.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Ludwig<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Zitat von Spike Gildea <<a href="mailto:spike@uoregon.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spike@uoregon.edu</a>>:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Dear colleagues,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> I forward a query from my colleague, Jóhanna Barðdal, who is looking <br></div><div dir="ltr">> for examples of predicates of "success” with non canonical subject <br></div><div dir="ltr">> marking, in particular those that take a dative subject.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> We are working on Indo-European verbs/predicates with the meanings <br></div><div dir="ltr">> 'succeed', 'be successful', 'make progress', 'turn out well', 'go <br></div><div dir="ltr">> well'. The last one in the sense "he is doing well in his dance <br></div><div dir="ltr">> class" or even "he is doing well in life”.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Thank you in advance for indications of other places in the world <br></div><div dir="ltr">> where we might find such predicates taking a dative subject!<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Spike<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 2<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:11:16 +0000 (UTC)<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: "E. Bashir" <<a href="mailto:ebashir@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ebashir@yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: Ludwig Paul <<a href="mailto:ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de</a>>,<br></div><div dir="ltr"> "<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:925462763.5249026.1546459876492@mail.yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">925462763.5249026.1546459876492@mail.yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">ِIn Urdu, for a person to be successful in doing something can be expressed as:<br></div><div dir="ltr">X-ko Y-me~ kaamyaabii huiiX (person)-DAT Y(effort)-in success becameY was successful in (doing) Y.<br></div><div dir="ltr">With best wishes,Elena Bashir, Senior Lecturer in UrduThe University of Chicago<br></div><div dir="ltr"> From: Ludwig Paul <<a href="mailto:ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"> To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <br></div><div dir="ltr"> Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 1:46 PM<br></div><div dir="ltr"> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <br></div><div dir="ltr">Dear Spike,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I could not find the discussion or the answers to your question in the <br></div><div dir="ltr">list, maybe this is a repetition: there is the German verbal <br></div><div dir="ltr">expression "mir (Dat.) gelingt etwas", i.e. I am successful in (doing) <br></div><div dir="ltr">sth.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Ludwig<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Zitat von Spike Gildea <<a href="mailto:spike@uoregon.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spike@uoregon.edu</a>>:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Dear colleagues,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> I forward a query from my colleague, Jóhanna Barðdal, who is looking <br></div><div dir="ltr">> for examples of predicates of "success” with non canonical subject <br></div><div dir="ltr">> marking, in particular those that take a dative subject.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> We are working on Indo-European verbs/predicates with the meanings <br></div><div dir="ltr">> 'succeed', 'be successful', 'make progress', 'turn out well', 'go <br></div><div dir="ltr">> well'. The last one in the sense "he is doing well in his dance <br></div><div dir="ltr">> class" or even "he is doing well in life”.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Thank you in advance for indications of other places in the world <br></div><div dir="ltr">> where we might find such predicates taking a dative subject!<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Spike<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> <br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190102/bc282067/attachment-0001.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190102/bc282067/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 3<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2019 22:32:56 +0000<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Jussi Ylikoski <<a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: Ludwig Paul <<a href="mailto:ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de</a>>,<br></div><div dir="ltr"> "<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>, "E. Bashir" <<a href="mailto:ebashir@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ebashir@yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:HE1PR0502MB3884B5DD69DD34F401B96D7F898C0@HE1PR0502MB3884.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">HE1PR0502MB3884B5DD69DD34F401B96D7F898C0@HE1PR0502MB3884.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"> <br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Dear all,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Here is a non-IE example from North Saami (Uralic), disregarding the probable influence from its Scandinavian neighbors. ILL stands for the illative, the case for Direction and Recipient, which could be (and earlier has been) labeled "dative" as well:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Midjiide/Johanii lihkostuvai buot.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">1PL.ILL/Johan.ILL succeed.PST.3SG all<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">'We/Johan succeeded in everything.'<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(cf. Norwegian Alt lykkes for oss/Johan.)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Unlike in Scandinavian, a dummy subject usually does not occur:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Midjiide/Johanii ii lihkostuvvan oažžut oktavuođa duinna.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">1PL.ILL/Johan.ILL NEG.3SG succeed.PST.PTCP get.INF contact.ACC 2SG.ACC<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">'We/Johan didn't succeed in contacting you.'<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(cf. Norwegian Det lyktes ikke for oss/Johan å ta kontakt med deg.)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Best regards,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jussi<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">Fra: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> på vegne av E. Bashir <<a href="mailto:ebashir@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ebashir@yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Sendt: onsdag 2. januar 2019 22.11<br></div><div dir="ltr">Til: Ludwig Paul; <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">Emne: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">ِIn Urdu, for a person to be successful in doing something can be expressed as:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">X-ko Y-me~ kaamyaabii huii<br></div><div dir="ltr">X (person)-DAT Y(effort)-in success became<br></div><div dir="ltr">Y was successful in (doing) Y.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">With best wishes,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Elena Bashir, Senior Lecturer in Urdu<br></div><div dir="ltr">The University of Chicago<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Ludwig Paul <<a href="mailto:ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 1:46 PM<br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Dear Spike,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I could not find the discussion or the answers to your question in the<br></div><div dir="ltr">list, maybe this is a repetition: there is the German verbal<br></div><div dir="ltr">expression "mir (Dat.) gelingt etwas", i.e. I am successful in (doing)<br></div><div dir="ltr">sth.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Ludwig<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Zitat von Spike Gildea <<a href="mailto:spike@uoregon.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spike@uoregon.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:spike@uoregon.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spike@uoregon.edu</a>>>:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Dear colleagues,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> I forward a query from my colleague, Jóhanna Barðdal, who is looking<br></div><div dir="ltr">> for examples of predicates of "success” with non canonical subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">> marking, in particular those that take a dative subject.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> We are working on Indo-European verbs/predicates with the meanings<br></div><div dir="ltr">> 'succeed', 'be successful', 'make progress', 'turn out well', 'go<br></div><div dir="ltr">> well'. The last one in the sense "he is doing well in his dance<br></div><div dir="ltr">> class" or even "he is doing well in life”.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Thank you in advance for indications of other places in the world<br></div><div dir="ltr">> where we might find such predicates taking a dative subject!<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Spike<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190102/fa47f71e/attachment-0001.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190102/fa47f71e/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 4<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 06:51:46 +0200<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Eitan Grossman <<a href="mailto:eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">eitan.grossman@mail.huji.ac.il</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: Jussi Ylikoski <<a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cc: Ludwig Paul <<a href="mailto:ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de</a>>,<br></div><div dir="ltr"> "<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>, "E. Bashir" <<a href="mailto:ebashir@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ebashir@yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <CAA00bN=uN128Xu+_cjNFeQL17rgLVnV7_OM5gFfUXYn2zhO9+<a href="mailto:Q@mail.gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Q@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Hi all,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Hebrew also has such constructions, although I imagine there are analyses<br></div><div dir="ltr">in which these are not non-canonical subjects. With the lexical verb 'to<br></div><div dir="ltr">succeed', you have a contrast between (a) and (b):<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(a) Nuʁit hitsliχ-a (b-a-mivχan)<br></div><div dir="ltr"> Nurit succeed.PST-3sgf (on-the-test)<br></div><div dir="ltr">'Nurit did well (on the test).'<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(b) (Nuʁit...) hitsliaχ l-a (b-a-mivχan)<br></div><div dir="ltr">(Nurit...) succeed.PST.3sgm DAT-3sgf (on-the-test)<br></div><div dir="ltr">'She succeeded/it went well for her (on the test).'<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(Interestingly, I don't know if "to fail" participates in the same<br></div><div dir="ltr">alternation. While I wouldn't say niχʃal l-a [fail.PST.3sgm DAT-3sgf], I<br></div><div dir="ltr">wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, and I can imagine some contexts in<br></div><div dir="ltr">which it would be ok. In any event, it isn't conventionalized to the same<br></div><div dir="ltr">extent as the "succeed" pair.)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">There are also multiple constructions in which datives participate in the<br></div><div dir="ltr">domain of "doing well/succeeding" or the opposite. As an example:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(c) halaχ l-a (tov/ʁa)<br></div><div dir="ltr">go.PST.3sgm DAT-3sgf (good/bad)<br></div><div dir="ltr">'It went well/badly for her.'<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Again, I'm not sure how Hebrew specialists would analyze these, because the<br></div><div dir="ltr">analysis of the dative is pretty contentious.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Eitan<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Eitan Grossman<br></div><div dir="ltr">Senior Lecturer, Department of Linguistics/School of Language Sciences<br></div><div dir="ltr">Hebrew University of Jerusalem<br></div><div dir="ltr">Tel: +972 2 588 3809<br></div><div dir="ltr">Fax: +972 2 588 1224<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:33 AM Jussi Ylikoski <<a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Dear all,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Here is a non-IE example from North Saami (Uralic), disregarding the<br></div><div dir="ltr">> probable influence from its Scandinavian neighbors. ILL stands for the<br></div><div dir="ltr">> illative, the case for Direction and Recipient, which could be (and earlier<br></div><div dir="ltr">> has been) labeled "dative" as well:<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Midjiide/Johanii lihkostuvai buot.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> 1PL.ILL/Johan.ILL succeed.PST.3SG all<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> 'We/Johan succeeded in everything.'<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> (cf. Norwegian *Alt lykkes for oss/Johan*.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Unlike in Scandinavian, a dummy subject usually does not occur:<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Midjiide/Johanii ii lihkostuvvan oažžut oktavuođa duinna.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> 1PL.ILL/Johan.ILL NEG.3SG succeed.PST.PTCP get.INF contact.ACC 2SG.ACC<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> 'We/Johan didn't succeed in contacting you.'<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> (cf. Norwegian *Det lyktes ikke for oss/Johan å ta kontakt med deg*.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Best regards,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Jussi<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Fra:* Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> på vegne av E.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Bashir <<a href="mailto:ebashir@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ebashir@yahoo.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Sendt:* onsdag 2. januar 2019 22.11<br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Til:* Ludwig Paul; <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Emne:* Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> ِIn Urdu, for a person to be successful in doing something can be<br></div><div dir="ltr">> expressed as:<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> X-ko Y-me~ kaamyaabii huii<br></div><div dir="ltr">> X (person)-DAT Y(effort)-in success became<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Y was successful in (doing) Y.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> With best wishes,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Elena Bashir, Senior Lecturer in Urdu<br></div><div dir="ltr">> The University of Chicago<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">> *From:* Ludwig Paul <<a href="mailto:ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ludwig.paul@uni-hamburg.de</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">> *To:* <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 2, 2019 1:46 PM<br></div><div dir="ltr">> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Dear Spike,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> I could not find the discussion or the answers to your question in the<br></div><div dir="ltr">> list, maybe this is a repetition: there is the German verbal<br></div><div dir="ltr">> expression "mir (Dat.) gelingt etwas", i.e. I am successful in (doing)<br></div><div dir="ltr">> sth.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Ludwig<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Zitat von Spike Gildea <<a href="mailto:spike@uoregon.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spike@uoregon.edu</a>>:<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> > Dear colleagues,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> ><br></div><div dir="ltr">> > I forward a query from my colleague, Jóhanna Barðdal, who is looking<br></div><div dir="ltr">> > for examples of predicates of "success” with non canonical subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">> > marking, in particular those that take a dative subject.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> ><br></div><div dir="ltr">> > We are working on Indo-European verbs/predicates with the meanings<br></div><div dir="ltr">> > 'succeed', 'be successful', 'make progress', 'turn out well', 'go<br></div><div dir="ltr">> > well'. The last one in the sense "he is doing well in his dance<br></div><div dir="ltr">> > class" or even "he is doing well in life”.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> ><br></div><div dir="ltr">> > Thank you in advance for indications of other places in the world<br></div><div dir="ltr">> > where we might find such predicates taking a dative subject!<br></div><div dir="ltr">> ><br></div><div dir="ltr">> > Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> > Spike<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/7bd757d4/attachment-0001.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/7bd757d4/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 5<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 10:02:38 +0000<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Joo Ian <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ian.joo@outlook.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: "<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cc: Meichun Liu <<a href="mailto:meichunliu0107@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">meichunliu0107@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: [Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:SN6PR07MB4557B4BD7000393CBBC0381BFE8D0@SN6PR07MB4557.namprd07.prod.outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SN6PR07MB4557B4BD7000393CBBC0381BFE8D0@SN6PR07MB4557.namprd07.prod.outlook.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"> <br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Dear all,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I wonder if you know any language where the primary morpheme meaning 'to put' and the one meaning 'to let go (to seize holding something)' are the same.<br></div><div dir="ltr">At this point I only know four: Mandarin (fàng), Korean (noh), Mongolian (tav), and White Hmong (tso).<br></div><div dir="ltr">They are all spoken in East Asia (with White Hmong spreading out to SE Asia), so I wonder if this feature is unique to this area.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Regards,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Ian JOO (주이안)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://ianjoo.academia.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ianjoo.academia.edu</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/e1e64266/attachment-0001.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/e1e64266/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 6<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 11:22:26 +0100<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Guillaume Jacques <<a href="mailto:rgyalrongskad@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">rgyalrongskad@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: Joo Ian <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ian.joo@outlook.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cc: "<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>, Meichun Liu<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:meichunliu0107@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">meichunliu0107@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <CAAzt3zb2msMQ5_gtiw-r1rkQ612Jecy6Bv=5koT4E=<a href="mailto:yYEbHq1A@mail.gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">yYEbHq1A@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">It is the case in Japhug, where the verb *ta *means both "put" and "leave,<br></div><div dir="ltr">let go, release", see the Japhug-Chinese-French dictionary, p.316:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01244860v2/document" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01244860v2/document</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">with sound files:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://himalco.huma-num.fr/dictionaries/japhug/dictionary_mp3.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://himalco.huma-num.fr/dictionaries/japhug/dictionary_mp3.pdf</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jacques, Guillaume 2016. Dictionnaire Japhug-chinois français, version 1.1,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Paris: projet Himalco.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Le jeu. 3 janv. 2019 à 11:02, Joo Ian <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ian.joo@outlook.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Dear all,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> I wonder if you know any language where the primary morpheme meaning 'to<br></div><div dir="ltr">> put' and the one meaning 'to let go (to seize holding something)' are the<br></div><div dir="ltr">> same.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> At this point I only know four: Mandarin (fàng), Korean (noh), Mongolian<br></div><div dir="ltr">> (tav), and White Hmong (tso).<br></div><div dir="ltr">> They are all spoken in East Asia (with White Hmong spreading out to SE<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Asia), so I wonder if this feature is unique to this area.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Regards,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Ian JOO (주이안)<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://ianjoo.academia.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ianjoo.academia.edu</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div dir="ltr">Guillaume Jacques<br></div><div dir="ltr">CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/e050cdb6/attachment-0001.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/e050cdb6/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 7<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 11:31:52 +0100<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: Guillaume Jacques <<a href="mailto:rgyalrongskad@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">rgyalrongskad@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: Spike Gildea <<a href="mailto:spike@uoregon.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spike@uoregon.edu</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cc: "<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <<a href="mailto:CAAzt3zbtB1jk5JuV-UTSV7W8OzajZWj6AEz2-yDLFuNMVH48Tg@mail.gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">CAAzt3zbtB1jk5JuV-UTSV7W8OzajZWj6AEz2-yDLFuNMVH48Tg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Dear Spike,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">In Japhug, the verb *ŋgrɯ* "succeed" selects the genitive, as in (1)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(1) aʑɯɣ pɯ-ŋgrɯ<br></div><div dir="ltr">1SG:GEN PFV-succeed<br></div><div dir="ltr">"I succeeded" (Jacques 2016: 210)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The genitive is used in Japhug to mark the recipient of some indirective<br></div><div dir="ltr">verbs, as well as the beneficiary.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jacques, Guillaume 2016. Dictionnaire Japhug-chinois français, version 1.1,<br></div><div dir="ltr">Paris: projet Himalco<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01244860v2/document" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01244860v2/document</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Le ven. 21 déc. 2018 à 17:01, Spike Gildea <<a href="mailto:spike@uoregon.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">spike@uoregon.edu</a>> a écrit :<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Dear colleagues,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> I forward a query from my colleague, Jóhanna Barðdal, who is looking for<br></div><div dir="ltr">> examples of predicates of "success” with non canonical subject marking, in<br></div><div dir="ltr">> particular those that take a dative subject.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> We are working on Indo-European verbs/predicates with the meanings<br></div><div dir="ltr">> 'succeed', 'be successful', 'make progress', 'turn out well', 'go well'.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> The last one in the sense "he is doing well in his dance class" or even "he<br></div><div dir="ltr">> is doing well in life”.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Thank you in advance for indications of other places in the world where we<br></div><div dir="ltr">> might find such predicates taking a dative subject!<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Best,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Spike<br></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div dir="ltr">Guillaume Jacques<br></div><div dir="ltr">CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/69586bc0/attachment-0001.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/69586bc0/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 8<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 16:03:19 +0530<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: "Mark W. Post" <<a href="mailto:markwpost@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">markwpost@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: Guillaume Jacques <<a href="mailto:rgyalrongskad@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">rgyalrongskad@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cc: Joo Ian <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ian.joo@outlook.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>,<br></div><div dir="ltr"> Meichun Liu <<a href="mailto:meichunliu0107@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">meichunliu0107@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <CA+dHXR+YesknihG0y5==<a href="mailto:SE8vNCgdwMAbfViJgQdWQ-gZ98puXw@mail.gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SE8vNCgdwMAbfViJgQdWQ-gZ98puXw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Found in Adi (TB > Tani > Eastern Tani, Eastern Himalaya) also, root is më<br></div><div dir="ltr">(schwa).<br></div><div dir="ltr">Mark<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">On Thu., 3 Jan. 2019, 15:53 Guillaume Jacques <<a href="mailto:rgyalrongskad@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">rgyalrongskad@gmail.com</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> It is the case in Japhug, where the verb *ta *means both "put" and<br></div><div dir="ltr">> "leave, let go, release", see the Japhug-Chinese-French dictionary, p.316:<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01244860v2/document" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01244860v2/document</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> with sound files:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://himalco.huma-num.fr/dictionaries/japhug/dictionary_mp3.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://himalco.huma-num.fr/dictionaries/japhug/dictionary_mp3.pdf</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Jacques, Guillaume 2016. Dictionnaire Japhug-chinois français, version<br></div><div dir="ltr">> 1.1, Paris: projet Himalco.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Le jeu. 3 janv. 2019 à 11:02, Joo Ian <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@outlook.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ian.joo@outlook.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Dear all,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I wonder if you know any language where the primary morpheme meaning 'to<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> put' and the one meaning 'to let go (to seize holding something)' are the<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> same.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> At this point I only know four: Mandarin (fàng), Korean (noh), Mongolian<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> (tav), and White Hmong (tso).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> They are all spoken in East Asia (with White Hmong spreading out to SE<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Asia), so I wonder if this feature is unique to this area.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Regards,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Ian JOO (주이안)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://ianjoo.academia.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ianjoo.academia.edu</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> --<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Guillaume Jacques<br></div><div dir="ltr">> CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/eac4d661/attachment.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20190103/eac4d661/attachment.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">Lingtyp mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">End of Lingtyp Digest, Vol 52, Issue 4<br></div><div dir="ltr">**************************************<br></div></div>
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