<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>
      <style>
<!--
 /* Font Definitions */
 @font-face
        {font-family:"Cambria Math";
        panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;
        mso-font-charset:0;
        mso-generic-font-family:roman;
        mso-font-pitch:variable;
        mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Calibri;
        panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;
        mso-font-charset:0;
        mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
        mso-font-pitch:variable;
        mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073732485 9 0 511 0;}
@font-face
        {font-family:Times;
        panose-1:0 0 5 0 0 0 0 2 0 0;
        mso-font-charset:0;
        mso-generic-font-family:auto;
        mso-font-pitch:variable;
        mso-font-signature:-536870145 1342185562 0 0 415 0;}
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
        {mso-style-unhide:no;
        mso-style-qformat:yes;
        mso-style-parent:"";
        margin:0in;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}
p.ReferencesT, li.ReferencesT, div.ReferencesT
        {mso-style-name:"References T";
        mso-style-unhide:no;
        margin-top:0in;
        margin-right:0in;
        margin-bottom:0in;
        margin-left:27.0pt;
        margin-bottom:.0001pt;
        text-align:justify;
        text-indent:-27.0pt;
        mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:Times;
        mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
        mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US;}
.MsoChpDefault
        {mso-style-type:export-only;
        mso-default-props:yes;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}
@page WordSection1
        {size:8.5in 11.0in;
        margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
        mso-header-margin:.5in;
        mso-footer-margin:.5in;
        mso-paper-source:0;}
div.WordSection1
        {page:WordSection1;}
-->
</style>
    </p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">Dear Ponrawee,</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><br>
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">I have been
        conducting, for the last several years, an experimental
        cross-linguistic study
        of zero-marking options for various thematic roles, of which
        goal, referred to
        in this query, is just one — see references below for some
        preliminary results.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>The
        findings so far suggest that the
        zero-marking option is much more widespread cross-linguistically
        than is commonly
        acknowledged.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">I would,
        however, question the use of the term "loss" to describe the
        phenomenon of zero marking.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>While
        this
        may indeed be appropriate in some cases, in most cases,
        zero-marking represents
        a default option, to which additional flagging elements may be
        added if and where
        deemed necessary.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Viewing
        this in terms
        of "loss" is Eurocentric.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span><br>
        <br>
        Supporting this, in many cases, one finds a path of
        grammaticalization leading
        from a zero-marked goal construction to one in which the verb
        "go"
        becomes reanalized as an allative marker.<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes"> 
        </span>For example, in most varieties of Malay/Indonesian,
        "pergi"
        ('go') usually takes a zero-marked goal, as in (1); however, in
        some varieties,
        its cognate form is reanalized as an allative marker, as in (2)
        — its allative
        function being evidenced by its occurrence in constructions such
        as (3):</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">(1) Riau
        Indonesian</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>Ali
        pergi pasar </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>Ali
        go market</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">(2) Sabah Malay
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>Ali
        pi pasar</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>Ali
        go/to market</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">(3) Sabah
        Malay</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>Ali
        bawa durian pi pasar</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>Ali
        bring durian to market</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">So in
        Malay/Indonesian, then, it is an allative marker that develops
        out of a prior zero-marked
        goal.  (I suspect you might find a similar path of
        grammaticalization also in Mainland Southeast Asian languages.)<br>
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="ReferencesT" style="mso-pagination:widow-orphan
      lines-together"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"
        lang="EN-US">Gil, David
        (2008) "How Complex Are Isolating Languages?" in M. Miestamo, K.
        Sinnemäki and F. Karlsson, eds., <i
          style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Language
          Complexity: Typology, Contact, Change,</i> John Benjamins,
        Amsterdam, 109-131.</span></p>
    <p class="ReferencesT"
      style="margin-left:27.35pt;text-indent:-27.35pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"
        lang="EN-US">Gil, David
        (2015) "The Mekong-Mamberamo Linguistic Area", in N.J. Enfield
        and B.
        Comrie eds., <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Languages of
          Mainland
          Southeast Asia, The State of the Art</i>, Pacific Linguistics,
        DeGruyter
        Mouton, Berlin, 266-355.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span></span></p>
    <p class="ReferencesT"
      style="margin-left:27.35pt;text-indent:-27.35pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="ReferencesT" style="margin-left:0in;text-indent:0in"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ascii-theme-font:
minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"
        lang="EN-US">For
        Gil (2015) see section 2.16 on Optional Thematic-Role Flagging,
        where the
        following table is provided showing the availability of "bare
        oblique" constructions (including but not limited to zero-marked
        goals) in some languages of the Mekong-Mamberamo area:</span></p>
    <p class="ReferencesT"
      style="margin-left:27.35pt;text-indent:-27.35pt"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-theme-font:
        minor-latin" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Language Availability of
        Bare Oblique Constructions:</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Cantonese 42%</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Vietnamese 67%</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Lao 54%</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Muarasiberut Mentawai 75%</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Sundanese 76%</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Jakarta Indonesian 68%</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Nage 79%</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;
        mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Roon 59%</span></p>
    <p class="ReferencesT"
      style="margin-left:27.35pt;text-indent:-27.35pt"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-theme-font:
        minor-latin" lang="EN-US">Meyah 66%</span></p>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/01/2019 03:52, Ponrawee
      Prasertsom wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABD22v9kubSJ3bM8Z=UMzve7DWs3t01iJRSrD2dpy=kCQi_U1g@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div dir="ltr">Dear all,
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I am looking for languages where goal markers (case
                affixes, prepositions, etc. corresponding to English <i>to</i>)
                developed into zero, i.e. are lost. That is, from
                something like <i>I go to school </i>to <i>I go
                  school. </i>Does anyone know of such cases?</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Currently, I am aware of only one such case: goal
                preposition loss on Asia Minor Greek (Karatsareas and
                Georgakopoulos 2016), which reconstructs history from
                variation among dialects (se > se/<span
                  style="color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:arial,sans-serif">∅
                  > </span><span
                  style="color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:arial,sans-serif">∅).</span></div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Ideally, I would like cases with attested historical
                data, but reconstruction or any other relevant data such
                as ongoing change etc. is also welcome. </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Reference:</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Karatsareas, Petros and Thanasis Georgakopoulos.
                2016. From syntagmatic to paradigmatic spatial zeroes:
                The loss of the preposition se in inner Asia Minor
                Greek. STUF - Language Typology and Universals, 69(2),
                309-340.<br>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Yours sincerely,</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                -- <br>
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div><span style="letter-spacing:0.2px">Ponrawee
                        Prasertsom</span><br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Graduate Student</div>
                    <div>Department of Linguistics</div>
                    <div><span style="letter-spacing:0.2px">Faculty of
                        Arts, </span>Chulalongkorn University</div>
                    <div>Bangkok, Thailand</div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
David Gil

Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany

Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816

</pre>
  </body>
</html>