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Dear Jeffrey</div>
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It helps a typologist to have a good grasp of firsthand work with languages , and fieldwork experience. But the issue with many typologists is lack of attention to detail in quotations, generalizations, language facts - you name it. A typology (any scholarship,
really) can only be valid is facts are right.</div>
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It is sad that so many 'typologists' don't care....</div>
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Best wishes, also from Bob</div>
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Sasha<br>
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<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span>Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald, PhD, DLitt, FAHA </span>
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<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span>Distinguished Professor and Australian Laureate Fellow</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span>Director of the Language and Culture Research Centre</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span>James Cook University</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span>PO Box 6811, Cairns, Queensland 4870, Australia</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span>http://www.jcu.edu.au/faess/JCUPRD_043649.html</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span>mobile 0400 305315, office 61-7-40421117</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span>fax 61-7-4042 1880 http://www.aikhenvaldlinguistics.com/</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoPlainText"><span><a href="https://research.jcu.edu.au/researchatjcu/research/lcrc" target="_blank">https://research.jcu.edu.au/researchatjcu/research/lcrc</a></span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Heath Jeffrey <schweinehaxen@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 23 January 2019 8:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Edith A Moravcsik; Alexandra Aikhenvald; lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Factual inadequacies in Haspelmath's article on serial verbs: an Open letter to the Editor of Language and Linguistics</font>
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<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">I see this exchange as emblematic of the current problems with "typology" as a serious scientific enterprise. Martin and others who believe in it are heavily invested
in cross-linguistically valid low-level concepts and advocacy of a uniform terminology. Sasha is a combination typologist and field grammarian who sees the problems with this approach without rejecting it wholesale, and advocates replacing universal claims
with weaker generalizations. </span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">I am a grammarian first and foremost and believe that typology as a distinct subfield is living on borrowed time and will soon
be relegated to undergraduate teaching and as a starting point for crosslinguistic research (WALS etc.).</span><br>
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This process has been seen before, many decades ago, in all of the older empirical biological and sociological-anthropological disciplines. It ends with the peripheralization of bottom-up universal typology and its replacement by top-down analysis ("functional"
if you like) and integrative study of specific languages/societies/species and their interactions in space and time.</div>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Edith A Moravcsik <edith@uwm.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 22, 2019 11:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexandra Aikhenvald; lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Factual inadequacies in Haspelmath's article on serial verbs: an Open letter to the Editor of Language and Linguistics</font>
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<span style="font-size: 14pt;">I need to make a crucial correction to my earlier message. Haspelmath’s generalizations about serial verb constructions that Aikhenvald and Dixon take issue with were not offered by Martin as defining the construction: they were
meant to be empirical statements about the construction already defined.<br>
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(The general issue of course still holds: how should the construction be defined?)<br>
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Edith<br>
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<b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>
Alexandra Aikhenvald<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 22, 2019 12:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lingtyp] Factual inadequacies in Haspelmath's article on serial verbs: an Open letter to the Editor of Language and Linguistics</p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;">Dear colleagues</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;">The recent paper on serial verbs by Martin Haspelmath (2016. 'The serial verb construction: comparative concept and cross-linguistic
generalizations'. <i>Language and Linguistics </i>17: 291-319) has caused concern to a fair number of linguists. Quite apart from attempting to re-characterize the category, the paper contains a number of factual inadequacies.
</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;">Encouraged by our colleagues, we have written a straightforward letter to the editor of the journal
<i>Language and Linguistics</i>, with a list of corrections. However, they declined to publish it. Our letter is attached to this message.</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;">Sincerely</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;">Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;">R. M. W. Dixon</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt;"></span></p>
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Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald, PhD, DLitt, FAHA </p>
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Distinguished Professor and Australian Laureate Fellow</p>
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Director of the Language and Culture Research Centre</p>
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James Cook University</p>
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<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Bohnemeyer, Juergen <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 22 January 2019 5:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander B.<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] history of linguistics: phonological word</span> </p>
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True. Not sure how Google Docs comes up with 1945. Odd. <br>
<br>
> On Jan 22, 2019, at 12:54 AM, Alexander B. <<a href="mailto:synru11@gmail.com">synru11@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Correction: Agard 1958, not 1945 (checked de visu).<br>
> <br>
> Agard, Frederick B. "Structural Sketch of Rumanian." Language 34, no. 3 (1958): 7-127. doi:10.2307/522282.<br>
> <br>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:44 PM Bohnemeyer, Juergen <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
> Harald Hammarström’s post gave me the idea of trying Google Ngram Viewer, which allows one to track down the earliest uses of a phrase in Google Docs. I found this definition in Nida (1946: 13):<br>
> <br>
> "In describing some syntactic unit it is convenient to designate the combination of word plus clitic element as consisting of a ‘phonological word’.”
<br>
> <br>
> Nida, E. A. (1946). Syntax, a descriptive analysis. SIL.<br>
> <br>
> However, Google Docs also contains two 1945 uses, one of which I was able to track down:<br>
> <br>
> Agard, A. F. (1945). Structural sketch of Rumanian. Language 34(3 Part 2): 7-127.<br>
> <br>
> "The phonological word is defined as a free, meaningful linear stretch containing one strong-stressed syllable with or without one or more weak-stressed syllables before or after it, provided no one of those weak syllables is itself free to be uttered (with
strong stress) in isolation.”<br>
> <br>
> The other 1945 hit appears to be in the journal Word, Volumes 38-39, pp87-88, 223. Google Docs does not provide any further information and my university’s library does not have digital holdings of this journal.
<br>
> <br>
> Best — Juergen<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > On Jan 21, 2019, at 6:16 PM, Alexander B. <<a href="mailto:synru11@gmail.com">synru11@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > <br>
> > Hocket 1949 was published in SIL 7.29-51 (1949).<br>
> > <br>
> > Eunice Pike (e.g. in Pike 1951, originally presented at the LSA summer meeting in 1950) writes that<br>
> > <br>
> > "A word, which may include one or more proclitics, is phonologically determined; it carries only one high stress and is constituted phonetically of a stress group (possibly a rhythm unit or ABDOMINAL PULSE) ft.5; it is the minimal unit which may occur in
isolation; following any word, given proper context, there is potentiality for pause. The word begins on any syllable which immediately follows an intoneme-carrying syllable. Between words a space is written to symbolize their borders" (p. 38).<br>
> > <br>
> > <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.journals.uchicago.edu%2Fdoi%2Fabs%2F10.1086%2F464098&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd5afc7e5d455415481d908d680879bdd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636837717262133987&sdata=QRd%2F4oCmhUlXo9lVd7o%2FowAtH8IEukAA6fz2LjOMN2c%3D&reserved=0" shash="tJNVaXzAzAcqYe1KXv024Eqc2EKpNIu8yK5Xbd8OcK82xHajlV3O7a6QSlIeSykdkzBdCOHUSATwF7vr8DPAqhBtqmzrSe4AEjIryUfFtAcab0VIp3/ghDbOa74n0oEZjwkvVi+2pEbGILxZiHVJVnLvfbOTtTrZq3cCM+nu1Gc=" originalsrc="https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/464098">
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/464098</a><br>
> > <br>
> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 1:03 PM Bohnemeyer, Juergen <<a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu">jb77@buffalo.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
> > I was also thinking Pike. Turns out I was wrong. Pike (1952: 110) cites a definition of the term by Hockett:<br>
> > <br>
> > Kenneth L. Pike (1952) More on Grammatical Prerequisites, WORD, 8:2, 106-121, DOI: 10.1080/00437956.1952.11659425<br>
> > <br>
> > <a href="https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Fycm8nntc&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd5afc7e5d455415481d908d680879bdd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636837717262133987&sdata=7dIclVyrnFSOeV65LXV0LHxXGQ%2Fv7cIscpglVmU%2BYZE%3D&reserved=0" shash="BSFcpnOXSQP8zLrZBIeJAciswgzbvZYVlR08LaBA/J3+9TtVza0YqfMHhe4WhEQparHkcgAeRXxRl/aax9oargjtAnz1VLdzogUyDx65YRzj9EyYuY4ZAw2oCFoAt65J1NRLsxRHPrKFLUfLNwT0tVNjAA7CaG1NVvLFKAeT7Jo=" originalsrc="https://tinyurl.com/ycm8nntc">
https://tinyurl.com/ycm8nntc</a><br>
> > <br>
> > Unfortunately, I’m not able make sense of the system Pike uses for attribution in that article, so I can’t say what paper of Hockett’s he’s citing ;-) I’m sure we have people on this list who have some familiarity with structuralist era citation conventions…<br>
> > <br>
> > Note also that Hockett’s definition is super-simple and super-general and doesn’t necessarily capture what I was taught to think of as the essence of the phonological word, namely, that it encompasses clitics and their hosts:<br>
> > <br>
> > > But it is also possible to define a PHONOLOGICAL WORD: any stretch of phonemes which occurs as a whole utterance, and which cannot be broken into two or more shorter stretches which also so occur, quite regardless of meanings.<br>
> > <br>
> > This seems to presuppose a very technical definition of ‘utterance’ that isn’t immediately obvious to me.
<br>
> > <br>
> > I think what we’re seeing here may be an example of a more general phenomenon of terminological evolution: terms (labels) and concepts travel somewhat independently through time, bump into one another at certain points in time, stick together for a while,
and then possibly break up again. <br>
> > <br>
> > Best — Juergen<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > > On Jan 21, 2019, at 3:02 PM, Larry M. HYMAN <<a href="mailto:hyman@berkeley.edu">hyman@berkeley.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Not sure if everyone was similarly influenced, but this confirms my belief that Kenneth Pike either originated or was the most consistent proponent not only of the phonological word but of the phonological hierarchy subsequently adopted by others. See
for example the following article which focuses on the phonological word in Otomí. Although later than those cited by Matthew (1968) refers back to Pike in footnote 3 (p.77):<br>
> > > <br>
> > > "The hierarchical concept untilized in the present discussion is based upon Kenneth Pike's theory (1954-60)."<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Wallis, Ethel E. 1968. The word and the phonological hierarchy of Mezquital Otomí. Language 44.76-90.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Pike, Kenneth L. 1954 (vol. 1), 1955 (vol.2), 1960 (vol.3). Language in relation to a unified theory of the structure of human behavior Glendale: Summer Institute of Linguistics.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > I haven't gone back to check these works (or the Mouton book that came out a little later), but I suspect the winning lower bid is 1954, at least thus far.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 11:47 AM Dryer, Matthew <<a href="mailto:dryer@buffalo.edu">dryer@buffalo.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
> > > The three earliest uses of the expression phonological word that I am aware of are in<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Healey, Alan. (1964) The Ok Language Family in New Guinea. Australian National University doctoral dissertation.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > “There is a close, but<span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">
</span>> > > not perfect, correlation between the phonological and grammatical word.”<br>
> > > <br>
> > > (Miller, Wick R. (1965) Acoma grammar and texts (University of California Publications in Linguistics 40). Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press.)<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > “The phonological word has a stronger decrescendo of speed and intensity, and sometimes of pitch than does the stress group. In slow speech the phonological word usually corresponds with a grammatical word so that their decrescendos overlap, but in fast
speech several stress groups with their included, mild decrescendos”<br>
> > > <br>
> > > (Eastman, Elizabeth & Robert Eastman. (1963) Iquito syntax. In Studies in Peruvian Indian Languages 1, 145-192. Summer Institute of Linguistics.)<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Matthew<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of TasakuTsunoda <<a href="mailto:tasakutsunoda@nifty.com">tasakutsunoda@nifty.com</a>><br>
> > > Date: Monday, January 21, 2019 at 2:11 AM<br>
> > > To: Adam James Ross Tallman <<a href="mailto:ajrtallman@utexas.edu">ajrtallman@utexas.edu</a>>, "<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
> > > Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] history of linguistics: phonological word<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Dear Adam,<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Please see the following book:<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Lyons, John. 1968. Introduction to theoretical linguistics. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Pp68-70 have the following subsection:<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > 2.2.11 Grammatical and phonological words<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Best wishes,<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Tasaku Tsunoda<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">送信元</span>: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> (Adam James Ross Tallman <<a href="mailto:ajrtallman@utexas.edu">ajrtallman@utexas.edu</a>>
<span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">の代理</span>)<br>
> > > <span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">日付</span>: 2019<span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">年</span>1<span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">月</span>20<span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">日日曜日</span> 7:44<br>
> > > <span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">宛先</span>: <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
> > > <span style="font-family: "MS Gothic";">件名</span>: [Lingtyp] history of linguistics: phonological word<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Hello everyone,<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > I'm trying to trace the roots of the development of the concept of "phonological word". Does anyone know who first used this term? The earliest I can find is Dixon's (1977) grammar of Yidin. What about "prosodic word"?<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > I'm aware that the roots of the idea can be found much earlier than when the concept was first mentioned, but I'm interested in the implicit analogy between a morphosyntactic constituency and phonological constituency and how, when and why that entered
linguistics.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Any help would be appreciated.<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > best,<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > Adam<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > --<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Adam J.R. Tallman<br>
> > > <br>
> > > Investigador del Museo de Etnografía y Folklore, la Paz<br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
> > > <br>
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> > > Department of Linguistics, University of California, Berkeley<br>
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> > <br>
> > Juergen Bohnemeyer, Professor and Director of Graduate Studies <br>
> > Department of Linguistics and Center for Cognitive Science <br>
> > University at Buffalo <br>
> > <br>
> > Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus * Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
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> > Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
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> > <br>
> > <br>
> > -- <br>
> > Alex<br>
> <br>
> Juergen Bohnemeyer, Professor and Director of Graduate Studies <br>
> Department of Linguistics and Center for Cognitive Science <br>
> University at Buffalo <br>
> <br>
> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus * Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
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> -- <br>
> Alex<br>
<br>
Juergen Bohnemeyer, Professor and Director of Graduate Studies <br>
Department of Linguistics and Center for Cognitive Science <br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus * Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
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