<div dir="ltr">
<span class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-gI"><span class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-qu"><span class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-go"><span></span>
</span></span></span><p class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">Dear Colleagues,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">Two
thoughts came to my mind. First, are we all in agreement as to what counts a
postposition? </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">In the
6<sup>th</sup> edition of his <i>Dictionary
of Linguistics and Phonetics</i>, David Crystal (2008: 377) writes, </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">the
term “postposition” is used </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">“</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">in
the grammatical classification of words” to refer to “the closed set of items
which follow noun phrases (or single nouns or pronouns) to form a single
constituent of structure.” So clearly Crystal intends postpositions to be
words. If words are necessarily free, then by Crystal’s definition postpositions
must be free linguistic forms. By the same definition, many so-called postpositions
like the case markers used in Japanese are not true postpositions, as they are
bound morphemes. (If possible, Nigel might share his conception about the notion
of “postposition.”)<span></span></span></p>
<p class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">Second,
the linguistic forms denoting spatial relations used after a nominal root in
Mandarin Chinese are typically referred to as “localizers.” Their analyses vary
from researcher to researcher, and their status ranges from postposition,
suffix, to clitic in different descriptions and analyses of these linguistic
forms. Some analyze these forms as forming a circumposition with the general preposition
</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:宋体">在</span><i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">zài</span></i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US"> (which
is used to indicate location or time), and some others disagree with such a
circumpositional analysis. So the status of these spatial forms used after a nominal
root is controversial in Chinese linguistics, and the controversy is closely
related to the conceptions of the notions like postposition, suffix, clitic,
and circumposition. Therefore, in the end explicit definitions (that are agreed
upon at least by the majority of us, if possible) do not just matter and they matter a lot in
linguistic studies in general and in crosslinguistic comparisons and typological studies in particular, as Martin has repeatedly
argued and reminded us.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US"><span> </span></span></p>
<p class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">Best
regards,<span></span></span></p>
<p class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">Chao<span></span></span></p>
<span class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-gI"><span class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-qu"><span class="m_6871795158141535523gmail-go"><br><span></span></span></span></span>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 10:39 AM Spike Gildea <<a href="mailto:spike@uoregon.edu" target="_blank">spike@uoregon.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
In the Cariban family, there is a small set of monomorphemic postpositions, with all the rest formed from relational nouns plus suffixes expressing static location or path (allative, perlative, ablative). Derbyshire (1985: 205-219) gives a long list of nouns
plus case suffixes (his "Relator forms”) and Meira (1999: 399-411) gives quite a few examples of what he calls “derived postpositions” in Cariban language Tiriyó. Derbyshire (1999: 42-43) gives a first indication of the comparative system, but limits his examples
to 15 postpositions in four languages.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In work in progress, my student Jordan Douglas has identified over 100 postposition cognate sets in the family, of which the great majority reconstruct as composed from a (possessed) relational noun stem plus a postpositional suffix. If you want
more information, write to me directly.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Spike</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">Derbyshire, Desmond C. 1999. Carib. <i>The Amazonian Languages</i>. Ed. by Dixon, R.M.W., & Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">Derbyshire, Desmond C. 1985.
<i>Hixkaryana and Linguistic Typology</i>. Dallas: University of Texas at</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">Arlington and the Summer Institute of Linguistics.</div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">
<div style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal">Meira, Sérgio. 1999.
<i>A Grammar of Tiriyó</i>. Houston: Rice University Doctoral Dissertation.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Feb 3, 2019, at 6:33 AM, LIU Danqing <<a href="mailto:liudanq@yahoo.com" target="_blank">liudanq@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydp1fc18a58yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:lucida console,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div></div>
<div>Dear Colleagues:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> The complex adpositions in Chinese basically exist in the form of circumpositions, with a preposition denoting thematic roles and a postposition conveying locative information. For instance:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mandarin: wo zai shu-shang xie-zi</div>
<div> I at book-on write-characters</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In some cases, the preposition is optional while the postposition is obligatory. So the circumposition is a temporary combination instead of a lexical item. Most postpositions came from locative relational nouns. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are several circumpositions which denote relations other than spatial ones. For example:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Ta gen huli shide jiaohua.</div>
<div> He with fox-like sly</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In my book published in Chinese, <i>Word Order Typology and Adposition Theories</i> (2003), I offered a detailed description regarding adpositions in Mandarin and a number of Wu dialects including Shanghainese. There are a Japanese edition
published in Japan and a Korean edition published in Korea, but no English edition, yet. I'm sorry for that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Danny Liu</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yahoo_quoted_9297864346" class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div>On Sunday, February 3, 2019, 9:51:55 PM GMT+8, Martin Haspelmath <<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">
<div>It seems to me that the great majority of languages have „complex adpositions“ of the Japanese type, i.e. noun-like forms which combine with their complements in an adpossessive-like way (either genitive flagging on the complement, or indexing
on the „adposition“, or both).
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Peter Svenonius has coined the term „axial“ for such forms (as mentioned by Anders Holmberg), which seems a nice addition to our terminology - these axial nouns typically mean ‚in front/in back‘, ‚above/below‘, and ‚inside/outside‘ (true, only
the first two are axes in the strict sense).</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>In European languages, one usually finds non-axials (i.e. non-noun-like prepositions) for such notions - including some „complex adverbial prepositions“ (e.g. French au dessus de ‚above‘), but I would venture the following claim:</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Outside of Europe, spatial relations of the type ‚front/above/inside’ are almost always expressed by axial nouns. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>There is surprisingly little systematic cross-linguistic research on axials, so this is just my impression (there was a 1993 book by Soteria Svorou, but it focused on semantic developments, not on morphosyntax).</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Martin<br clear="none">
<div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073yqt3590230865" id="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073yqtfd92936">
<br clear="none">
Am 03.02.2019 um 14:20 schrieb Alice Vittrant- Villejuif <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:vittrant@vjf.cnrs.fr" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">vittrant@vjf.cnrs.fr</a>>:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073yqt3590230865" id="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073yqtfd94988">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073yqt3590230865" id="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073yqtfd90254">
<div>Dear Nigel,
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">This kind of complex appositions is related to the Relator Nouns issue (or 'Noms de Localisation Interne’ issue). See for instance Delancey 1997, Aurnague 1989, 1996, Aurnague & al 2000 and Borillo 1988 (in french).</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">They are quite frequent in Southeast Asian languages. See for instance Burmese and Thaï chapters in Vittrant & Watkins (eds)(2019).</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Best, </div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Alice</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">-----</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-bib-body" style="line-height:1.35;margin-left:2em">
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry">DeLancey, Scott. « Grammaticalization and the Gradience of Categories : Relator Nouns and Postpositions in Tibetan and Burmese ». In
<i class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Essays on language function and language type: dedicated to T. Givón</i>, édité par Joan L. Bybee, John Haiman, et Sandra A. Thompson, Johns Benjamins., 51‑69. Amsterdam, 1997.</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Borillo, Andrée. « Le lexique de l’espace : les noms et les adjectifs de localisation interne ». </span><i class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Cahiers de Grammaire</i><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"> 13
(1988): 1‑22.</span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Aurnague, Michel. 1989. Catégorisation des objets dans le langage: Les noms et les adjectifs </span><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">de localisation interne. Cahiers
de Grammaire 14. 1–21. Toulouse: UTM.</span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Aurnague, Michel. « Les Noms de Localisation Interne: tentative de caractérisation sémantique à partir de données du basque et du français ».
</span><i class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Cahiers de Lexicologie</i><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"> 69 (1996): 159‑92.</span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Aurnague, M., K. Boulanouar, J.-L. Nespoulous, A. Borillo & M. Borillo. 2000. Spatial semantics:</span><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">the processing of Internal Localization
Nouns. Cahiers de Psychologie Cognitive/ </span><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Current Psychology of Cognition 19 (1). 69–110.</span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry"><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Vittrant, Alice, et Justin Watkins, eds.
</span><i class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">The Mainland Southeast Asia Linguistic Area</i><span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">. Trends in Linguistics. Studies and Monographs [TiLSM] 314. Berlin, Boston: De Gruyter Mouton, 2019. </span></div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-entry">
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073csl-bib-body" style="line-height:1.35;margin-left:2em">
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</div>
<span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073Z3988" title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_id=urn%3Aisbn%3A978-3-11-040213-1&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=The%20Mainland%20Southeast%20Asia%20Linguistic%20Area&rft.place=Berlin%2C%20Boston&rft.publisher=De%20Gruyter%20Mouton&rft.series=Trends%20in%20Linguistics.%20Studies%20and%20Monographs%20%5BTiLSM%5D&rft.aufirst=Alice&rft.aulast=Vittrant&rft.au=Alice%20Vittrant&rft.au=Justin%20Watkins&rft.date=2019&rft.isbn=978-3-11-040213-1&rft.language=ENGL"></span></div>
</div>
<span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073Z3988" title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_id=urn%3Aisbn%3A978-1-55619-522-8&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=bookitem&rft.atitle=Grammaticalization%20and%20the%20Gradience%20of%20Categories%20%3A%20Relator%20Nouns%20and%20Postpositions%20in%20Tibetan%20and%20Burmese&rft.place=Amsterdam&rft.edition=Johns%20Benjamins&rft.aufirst=Scott&rft.aulast=DeLancey&rft.au=Joan%20L.%20Bybee&rft.au=John%20Haiman&rft.au=Sandra%20A.%20Thompson&rft.au=Scott%20DeLancey&rft.date=1997&rft.pages=51-69&rft.spage=51&rft.epage=69&rft.isbn=978-1-55619-522-8&rft.language=anglais"></span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" type="cite">
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Le 2 févr. 2019 à 21:57, Nigel Vincent <<a shape="rect" class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" href="mailto:nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">nigel.vincent@MANCHESTER.AC.UK</a>> a écrit :</div>
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<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">There is a substantial literature on prepositions and postpositions. There is also a growing body of work on complex prepositions, i.e. things like English 'in front of', French 'au dessous de'. To complete the picture
I'd be grateful for pointers to studies and/or examples of complex postpositions.<span class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073" clear="none">
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<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Thanks in advance</div>
<div class="gmail-m_6871795158141535523gmail-m_4568429091461589695ydpb9081734yiv8680994073">Nigel</div>
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