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</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Dear all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I am interested
in a rather peculiar recurring lexical connection between colour
terms
referring to two quite different non-focal colours: (A) bright
blue/green, or
turquoise; and (B) dark red/brown.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>At
present I am familiar with the following three forms connecting
these two
colours:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">1. "puce"
in English:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">While some
interpret it as (A), most interpret it as (B): see for example </span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi"><a
href="https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/05/puce.html?fbclid=IwAR2AooK64exlAXP68N3IQF5WxvNhOVQwfzWu08oBavAtRvvbOppEwJnMttk"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#365899;background:#F2F3F5;text-decoration:
none;text-underline:none">https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/05/puce.html</span></a></span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:
minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">2.
"tosca" (or similar forms) in various languages:<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">English seems to
have both meanings; see</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.colourlovers.com/palette/1954308/green_tosca">https://www.colourlovers.com/palette/1954308/green_tosca</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">and</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.beautycolorcode.com/744042">https://www.beautycolorcode.com/744042</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">In other
languages, one or another of the meanings appears to be
dominant, thus:<br>
Indonesian has the (A) meaning</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.google.com/search?q=tosca+warna&safe=strict&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjDqrHb59ngAhXUWysKHbAnDjQQ_AUICSgA&biw=1406&bih=654&dpr=2">https://www.google.com/search?q=tosca+warna&safe=strict&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjDqrHb59ngAhXUWysKHbAnDjQQ_AUICSgA&biw=1406&bih=654&dpr=2</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">while German has
the (B) meaning, in "Toskanarot"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-language:
HE" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">3.
"firuz" (or similar forms) in various languages: </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Originally
referring to turquoise (the stone), cognates of this word also
acquired the associated (A) colour-term meaning in, among
others, Arabic, Turkish and
Indonesian.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>However, in
some dialects of
Indonesian, the compound expression "terong pirus" ('eggplant
pirus')
is used to refer to the tamarillo fruit, which has a dark
red/brown (B) colour.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">My questions:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">1. Can you
provide further examples from other languages of colour terms
cognate to
"puce", "tosca" or "firuz"?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>And
if so, what colour do they refer to?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">2. Are you
familiar with other etymons (beyond the above three) connecting
these two
specific colours through patterns of colexification and/or
semantic change?<br>
<br>
3. Can you offer a possible rationale behind this rather odd
recurring lexical
pattern? (Or is it just a coincidence?)<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-bidi-font-family:
Arial;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
</pre>
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