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Jeffrey Heath makes a very important point here. It's easy to think
of a typical exemplar of an ideophone, and this is so different from
other types of words that the special term "ideophone" seems useful.
But exemplar-based concepts give us subjective stereotypes, not
comparative concepts that can be used for objective cross-linguistic
comparison. <br>
<br>
There are other terms of this kind in linguistics ("word", "clitic",
"agglutination", "agreement") – they seem useful because everyone
can think of a salient exemplar, but they are undefined, so we
cannot really use them for quantitative cross-linguistic comparison.<br>
<br>
(The only definition of "ideophone" that I could think of is
"obligatorily duplicated forms that can be used as adverbials" –
this would include the most typical cases, and would exclude cases
like Greek sighá-sighá 'slowly', because sighá on its own is
possible as well, if I remember correctly. The definition would
exclude many of the cases included by Dingemanse, of course.)<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19.03.19 12:07, Heath Jeffrey wrote:<br>
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How do you define "ideophone"? Are English verbs twinkle and
sputter ideophones? Are onomatopoeias ideophones? What about
adjectival intensifiers like brand in brand new?</div>
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There is no cross-linguistically applicable grammatical
definition of this concept, i.e. with necessary and sufficient
morphosyntactic properties. Dingemanse's universal definition of
ideophones is, for good reason, limited to the convergence of
phonological and semantic markedness. Both of these are
intrinsically vague and subjective. His definition makes no
mention of morphosyntactic properties. <span style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline
!important">In specific languages, </span><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
display: inline !important">morphosyntactically valid
word-class categories often include some (intuitively)
ideophone-like stems along with some (intuitively)
non-ideophone-like stems, and exclude other (intuitively)
ideophone-like stems. For example, onomatopoeias (sometimes
claimed to be the universal bedrock of ideophones) often
constitute a morphosyntactic class of their own, distinct from
the class containing many (intuitively) ideophone-like stems.
So there is no universal core for ideophone, comparable to
that often claimed for adjective or numeral.</span></div>
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<br>
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Any crosslinguistic survey of ideophone semantics or phonology,
even if limited to West Africa, will have to wrestle with the
vagueness of the concept. </div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b>
Lingtyp <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on
behalf of Johann-Mattis List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mattis.list@lingulist.de"><mattis.list@lingulist.de></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 19, 2019 5:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] A "Swadesh List" of Ideophone
semantic categories</font>
<div> </div>
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<div class="PlainText">I'd recommend all of you to see if
the concepts you want to use there<br>
appear (already) in Concepticon at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fconcepticon.clld.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2da20e444a544c06124008d6ac4feb60%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636885856584198686&sdata=q158Ogy4Tt9jd78oRc8wYeFa9kPTNDlHsbG7Au9jwP0%3D&reserved=0">https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fconcepticon.clld.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2da20e444a544c06124008d6ac4feb60%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636885856584198686&sdata=q158Ogy4Tt9jd78oRc8wYeFa9kPTNDlHsbG7Au9jwP0%3D&reserved=0</a>.
If not,<br>
and you publish your list, we'll gladly add them, if they
are not too<br>
idiosyncratic, but I'd expect they won't if you go for
cross-linguistic<br>
studies as a goal.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Mattis<br>
<br>
On 19/03/2019 10.32, Françoise Rose wrote:<br>
> Hi Ian,<br>
> <br>
> Here is a list of general actions or states that are
expressed (often<br>
> more specifically) by Teko ideophones and that do not
seem to fit in<br>
> your current list.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Blowing<br>
> <br>
> Be dark<br>
> <br>
> Closed eyes / Open eyes<br>
> <br>
> Grimace<br>
> <br>
> Snoaring<br>
> <br>
> Tearing<br>
> <br>
> Entering /exiting<br>
> <br>
> Winking<br>
> <br>
> Shooting<br>
> <br>
> Falling<br>
> <br>
> Slip<br>
> <br>
> Jumping<br>
> <br>
> Go up/down<br>
> <br>
> Push<br>
> <br>
> Bubbles<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> You can read about Teko ideophones in my grammar. P.
400-409<br>
> <br>
> Ros Rose, Françoise. /Grammaire de l’émérillon Teko,
Une Langue<br>
> Tupi-Guarani de Guyane Française/. Langues et
Sociétés d’Amérique<br>
> Traditionnelle 10. Louvain: Peeters, 2011.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Very best,<br>
> <br>
> Françoise<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> *De :* Lingtyp
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> *De la
part<br>
> de* Joo Ian<br>
> *Envoyé :* mardi 19 mars 2019 09:20<br>
> *À :* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
> *Cc :* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:caroljuan27@gmail.com">caroljuan27@gmail.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mariaflax@gmail.com">mariaflax@gmail.com</a><br>
> *Objet :* [Lingtyp] A "Swadesh List" of Ideophone
semantic categories<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Dear all,<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I am currently trying to make a list of semantic
categories of<br>
> ideophones, in order to do a cross-linguistic
comparison (for example,<br>
> do ideophones whose meanings are related to
brightness show similarity<br>
> across different languages?)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Here’s my list so far, created out of my intuition
and previous literature.<br>
> <br>
> I wonder if you have any meanings that you would like
to add to or<br>
> remove from the list.<br>
> <br>
> The goal is to make a list of ideophone meanings so
that most languages<br>
> that have a sizeable ideophone inventory would have
at least several<br>
> ideophones that belong to each category.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> *Semantic Categories*<br>
> <br>
> Air<br>
> <br>
> Anxiety<br>
> <br>
> Bright<br>
> <br>
> Clean<br>
> <br>
> Clear-cut/Vivid<br>
> <br>
> Crying<br>
> <br>
> Dirty/Messy<br>
> <br>
> Dry<br>
> <br>
> Eating/Drinking<br>
> <br>
> Fast<br>
> <br>
> Flow<br>
> <br>
> Friction<br>
> <br>
> Hitting/Beating<br>
> <br>
> Hungry/Thirsty<br>
> <br>
> Laughter<br>
> <br>
> Looking<br>
> <br>
> Plenty<br>
> <br>
> Ringing<br>
> <br>
> Ripping/Cutting<br>
> <br>
> Romantic<br>
> <br>
> Rotation<br>
> <br>
> Rough<br>
> <br>
> Rupture<br>
> <br>
> Scattering<br>
> <br>
> Secretly<br>
> <br>
> Shaking/Vibration<br>
> <br>
> Slow/Lazy<br>
> <br>
> Soft<br>
> <br>
> Solid<br>
> <br>
> Speaking<br>
> <br>
> Stop<br>
> <br>
> Walking/Running<br>
> <br>
> Wet<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I would appreciate any comments or advices.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> From Seoul,<br>
> <br>
> Ian<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig
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