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<p>Dear Samia,</p>
<p>Several years ago I was looking cross-linguistically at
constructions which would seem to overlap with the kind of
construction that you are interested in. Unfortunately I got
bogged down in definitional matters and abandoned the topic. But
here are some data that might be relevant.</p>
<p>In Papuan Malay, any NP, including proper names, can be marked
for person (1st, 2nd or 3rd) and number. (There is no gender in
Papuan Malay.) The NP can occur in any position in the sentence.
For example</p>
<p>(1) sa lia Niko ko di pasar<br>
1SG see Niko 2SG in market <br>
'I saw you/Niko in the market'</p>
<p>The above meets your requirement for person marking but not for
agreement. Now Papuan Malay also has a construction which might be
characterized as optional incipient subject-verb agreement. So
putting that together with person marking on a proper name in
subject position, you get constructions such as the following:</p>
<p>(2) Niko ko kelemarin ko lia sa di pasar<br>
Niko 2SG yesterday 2SG see 1SG in market <br>
'You/Niko yesterday saw me in the market' <br>
<br>
This is now like what you're looking for, except that I would
characterize the subject NP "Niko ko" as the controller of
agreement and the verbal complex "ko lia" as its target, which
seems to be the opposite of what you describe for Tamil (though
the difference could be terminological).</p>
<p>Papuan Malay is alone amongst Malay/Indonesian dialects in having
this construction, and it is a clear calque on similar
constructions that are available in some of the local languages of
West Papua — if you're interested I could try and dig up some data
(though when I was working on this, I wasn't concerned
specifically with proper names).<br>
<br>
Outside New Guinea, you might take a look at Classical Nahuatl:
<br>
<br>
Andrews, J. Richard. 1975. Introduction to Classical Nahuatl.
Austin: U of Texas Press.<br>
<br>
where person-marked proper names are reported (p.193), though I
wouldn't know about agreement patterns.</p>
<p>Then there's Nama, which also productively marks NPs for person,
though my notes don't specify whether this includes also proper
names. You could look at pp. 41-45 of the following reference
(which unfortunately I don't have access to right now):</p>
<p>Hagman, Roy S. (1977) Nama Hottentot Grammar, Indiana University
Press, Bloomington.</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/03/2019 13:18, Samia Naïm wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:FC372045-D973-416B-8445-375312EED9C4@cnrs.fr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear
colleagues
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am relaying to Dr Appasamy Murugaiyan (<a
href="mailto:a.murugaiyan@wanadoo.fr" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">a.murugaiyan@wanadoo.fr</a>), a
specialist of Old Tamil (<span style="font-family:
TimesNewRomanPSMT;" class="">EPHE-UMR 7528 Mondes iranien
et indien)</span>, who is interested in the languages
where the proper names <span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="">take PNG markers
and agree with the predicate.</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><br
class="">
</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Here is
his request :</span></div>
<div class="">
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">« Pronominalised proper names in
Old Tamil»<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">In Dravidian languages, particularly in OlD
Tamil, a special construction
known under different </span><span style="font-size:
12pt;" class="" lang="EN-GB">terms such as “<i class="">Pronominalised
Noun</i>, <i class="">Participial Noun</i>, <i
class="">Appellative Verb</i>, <i class="">Conjugated
Noun</i>, <i class="">Personal noun” </i> is used.
From a historical perspective. This <i class="">pronominalised
</i></span><i class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">noun</span></i><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-GB">(PNN) is
formed by affixing
the Person Number and Gender (PNG) marker to any stem
(STEM + PNG). These PNN
forms in 1<sup class="">st</sup>, 2<sup class="">nd</sup>
and 3<sup class="">rd</sup> persons are attested
in many Classical Tamil verses with distinctive
grammatical functions as
argument or predicate. Whereas, in Modern Tamil the PNN
forms as occurred in 1<sup class="">st</sup>
and 2<sup class="">nd</sup> person nouns have almost
fallen into disuse and those in 3<sup class="">rd</sup>
person, though are in use, this, however, tends to be
generalised and lost
their Person distinction. On the contrary, in Tamil
inscriptions (</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">(9th to 12th
Century CE)</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB"> the PNN seem to be frequently
used. A detailed
analysis of the data from the inscriptional Tamil
reveals not only that PNN are
used in wider grammatical contexts and preserve their
multifunctionality, they
also found to exhibit a unique feature where, the proper
names are
pronominalized. The pronominalisation of proper names is
not at all attested in
other corpus of Tamil. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">In Tamil, the bare form of proper
names, with out any marker added, are
difinite and 3<sup class="">rd</sup> person singular
names.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">Peter ko</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Doulos
SIL";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Doulos
SIL";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:
FR" class="" lang="EN-GB">ḍ</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-GB">u.tt.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Doulos
SIL";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Doulos SIL";
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:FR"
class="" lang="EN-GB">āṉ ‘Peter
gave’ <br class="">
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Doulos
SIL";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Doulos SIL";
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:FR"
class="" lang="EN-GB">Peter give.past.3<sup class="">rd</sup>.s.m<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">In modern Tamil to say « I, Pater,
gave » a eriphrastic
construction is used:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">Peter ākiya nāṉ
koḍu.tt.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Doulos
SIL";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Doulos
SIL";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
mso-fareast-language:FR" class="" lang="EN-GB">ēṉ</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-GB"><br
class="">
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">Pater be.ADJP I
give.past.1s<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">ADJP = Adjectival participle </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-GB"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">But in the the Tamil epgraphic
corpus (9th to 12th Century CE), the proper
name is prominalised and agrees with the verb. This
construction is not noticed
or 2<sup class="">nd</sup> and 3<sup class="">rd</sup>
persons.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">Peter.ēṉ koḍu.tt.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Doulos
SIL";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Doulos
SIL";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
mso-fareast-language:FR" class="" lang="EN-GB">ēṉ<br
class="">
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">Peter.1s give.past.1s</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-GB"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">This construction « proper
name+PNG », is noticed only in Tamil
epigraphic texts and I think it is an innovation. <br
class="">
This type of pronominalisation is noticed in Elamit. </span><span
class="" lang="EN-GB">DAVID W. McALPIN, Proto- Elamo-
Dravidian: The
Evidence and its Implications 1981, THE AMERICAN
PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY.<br class="">
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">The comparison proposed by David McAlpin is
mainly based on the
pronominalisation construction shown above.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-GB">The question is: Are there other
languages wher the proper names take PNG markers
and agree with the predicate or for any other syntactic
reasons.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 107%;" class=""
lang="EN-GB">Thanks and Best regards</span><!--EndFragment-->
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word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing:
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
class=""><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; line-height:
normal; border-spacing: 0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
class=""><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New
Roman'; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
border-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"
class=""><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate;
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans:
2; text-align: -webkit-auto;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing:
0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-size: 12px;
font-family: Helvetica;"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
</pre>
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