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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Dear all,</span><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I am looking for an example of a
language that has a construction that meets the following 4
conditions:</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(1) The construction is of the form
N A/V, i.e. a noun in construction with either an adjective or a
verb — either
linear order will do.</span><span style="font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(2) The construction can be
understood either predicatively, denoting a property or activity
("N is
A/V"), or attributively, denoting a thing ("N that's A/V").</span><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(3) The construction is productive,
i.e. it occurs across the board, and is not restricted to a
particular
configuration of grammatical features.</span><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(4) The construction imposes
restrictions (e.g. through case or agreement markers) on the
semantic
relationship between the two terms (e.g. specific thematic
roles) — all while
maintaining predicative/attributive vagueness or ambiguity as
per (2).</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Discussion:</span><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
Some European and other languages have constructions that meet
conditions (1),
(2), and (4), but are limited to particular configurations of
features and thus
fail condition (3).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>For
example, in Hebrew,
"ʕorvim šħorim" ('crow.PLM black.PLM'), with number-and-gender
agreement, can be understood either attributively or
predicatively, but the
predicative interpretation is limited to a generic reading, and
even there it
is not the most natural way of conveying the meaning in
question.</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Colloquial Indonesian and my usual
"ayam makan" ('chicken eat') example meets conditions (1), (2)
and
(3) but fails (4) — it is semantically vague with regard to most
commonplace
categories, including even thematic roles. <span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Various optional grammatical
morphemes can be
added to "ayam makan" to narrow the range of semantic
relationships
between the two terms, but these tend also to eliminate the
predicative/attributive vagueness or ambiguity in favour of
either predicative
or attributive readings — conditions (2) and (4) seem to be
working against
each other.</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I have a vague recollection that I
once saw an example from some Australian language that fit the
bill, but I'll
take examples from anywhere.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Maybe
if I
stick my neck out and assert that no language can have a
construction that
satisfies the above 4 conditions then somebody will come up with
the requisite
counterexample.</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span><span style="font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">David</span><span style="font-family:
"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""></span></p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
</pre>
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