<div dir="ltr">I brought it up mainly for its description of the singulative system in Kipsigis, since Silva said they were interested in data on singulatives.  <div><br></div><div>For the little that it's worth, I don't agree that the dissertation fails to give perspicuous descriptions or explanations, and I don't find much in there that seems high-risk or excessively complex.  But I can't see us coming to agreement about that, especially in an email discussion, so I'll leave things by recommending that interested parties read the dissertation themselves and make up their own minds.</div><div><br></div><div>All the best,</div><div>Neil</div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div><br><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:15 PM Martin Haspelmath <<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Thanks for pointing this out, I don't see how Kouneli's dissertation would be relevant to a cross-linguistic study of singulatives. It makes a large number of very specific high-risk assumptions, and describes some phenomena of Kipsigis (Nilotic) in a very complex way. <br></div><div><br></div><div>At the same time, Kouneli says explicitly (p. 40) that "a uniform analysis of all types of singulatives is unlikely" - without giving a definition of "singulative". So the goal of this type of research seems to be very different from that of finding cross-linguistic generalizations and explaining them.</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe I don't understand it properly, but it seems that this approach offers neither perspicuous descriptions nor any clear claims about cross-linguistic distributions or explanations. I'd be happy to be shown wrong.</div><div><br></div><div>Martin</div><div><div><br></div>Am 16.05.2019 um 16:16 schrieb Neil Myler <<a href="mailto:myler@bu.edu" target="_blank">myler@bu.edu</a>>:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Dear Silva,<div>Chapter 2 of this recent NYU dissertation by Maria Kouneli contains a lot of germane discussion.</div><div>Best,</div><div>Neil</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:46 AM Nurmio, Silva M <<a href="mailto:silva.nurmio@helsinki.fi" target="_blank">silva.nurmio@helsinki.fi</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">




<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>Dear all,</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span><br>
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>I’m looking for data on singulatives and I’m writing to ask for your help in tracking down more instances of this phenomenon. There is so far no comprehensive list of singulatives in the world’s languages that’s informed
 by an operational definition of what constitutes a singulative, and my aim is to produce such a database.
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>My working definition of the singulative is that it is a noun form with any marker (inflectional or derivational) that creates a meaning ‘one’ or ‘(one) unit’ when added to a base, i.e. a singulativizing and individuating
 marker. Bases for singulatives tend to be mass nouns, plurals, collectives of different kinds, general number forms, and sometimes non-nominal bases like adjectives. Here are four examples of different types of singulatives under my definition:</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>(1) Bayso (Afro-Asiatic): <i>lúban</i> ‘lion(s)’ (general number), singulative
<i>lúban-titi </i>‘a lion’</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>(2) Russian (Indo-European) <i>gorox</i> ‘pea(s)’ (mass), singulative
<i>goroš-ina</i> ‘a pea’</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>(3) Italian (Indo-European) <i>cioccolato</i> ’chocolate’ (mass), singulative
<i>cioccolat-ino</i> ’a chocolate praline, chocolate sweet’</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>(4) Welsh (Indo-European) <i>unigol</i> ‘individual’ (adjective), singulative
<i>unigol-yn</i> ‘an individual’</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>These examples show that singulatives occur in different number systems, and they can be productive or unproductive (like the Russian -<i>ina</i> suffix). I also include diminutive markers which have a singulative function,
 as seen in (3) (Jurafsky 1996 calls this the ’partitive’ function of diminutives). Forms that are singulatives are often not described as such in grammars (especially types 3 and 4), making them harder to find. I am also including singulatives in older language
 stages which have since been lost (e.g. Old Irish).</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>Below is a list of languages (alphabetical order) on which I already have data. I would be very grateful for any pointers to grammars, language descriptions or other mentions of singulatives in languages which are not on
 the list, or if you think there are sources for any of the already listed languages that I’m likely to have missed.
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>Thank you very much in advance!</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>Best wishes,</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>Silva Nurmio</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Aari</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Akkadian</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Arabic (several dialects)</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Arbore</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Baiso/Bayso</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Baule</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Berber</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Bidyogo</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Bora</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Breton</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Burushaski</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Cantonese</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Cornish</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Dagaare</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Dutch</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Enets (Forest Enets and Tundra
 Enets)</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Ewe</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Fox</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Gede'o</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Hebrew</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Imonda</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Italian</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Itelmen</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Kambaata</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Kiowa</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Krongo
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Majang</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Maltese</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Marle (Murle)</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Masa</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Miraña</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Nafusi</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Nahuatl (all dialects?)</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Ojibwe (all dialects?)</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Old Irish</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Oromo (Borana dialect)</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Resígaro</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Russian</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Shilluk</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Shona</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Sidamo</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Swahili</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Tariana</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Tewa</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Tigre</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Tiwa</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Towa</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Turkana</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Ukrainian</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span style="color:black">Welsh</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span>Yiddish</span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;line-height:normal">
<span>Zulu</span></p>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-9062670243385860907gmail-m_786020835278482711Signature">
<div id="gmail-m_-9062670243385860907gmail-m_786020835278482711divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">
Dr Silva Nurmio</p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">
</p>
<div>Research Fellow<br>
Helsinki Collegium for Advanced Studies<br>
Fabianinkatu 24 (P.O. Box 4)<br>
00014 University of Helsinki, Finland</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://tuhat.helsinki.fi/portal/en/person/sinurmio" class="gmail-m_-9062670243385860907gmail-m_786020835278482711OWAAutoLink" target="_blank"></a><span class="gmail-m_-9062670243385860907gmail-m_786020835278482711OWAAutoLink"><a href="https://tuhat.helsinki.fi/portal/en/person/sinurmio" target="_blank">https://tuhat.helsinki.fi/portal/en/person/sinurmio</a></span></div>
<div><span class="gmail-m_-9062670243385860907gmail-m_786020835278482711OWAAutoLink"></span><a href="http://helsinki.academia.edu/SilvaNurmio" class="gmail-m_-9062670243385860907gmail-m_786020835278482711OWAAutoLink" target="_blank"></a><br>
</div>
<br>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lingtyp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><Kouneli 2019 The syntax of number and modification.pdf></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Lingtyp mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>