<div dir="ltr"><div>As a native speaker of American English, I strongly prefer the longer form for aesthetic reasons (see my previous email, although I did not clarify my background). I wonder if that puts me in the minority, or if we need a larger sample size.</div><div>Daniel<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 11:39 AM John Du Bois <<a href="mailto:dubois@ucsb.edu">dubois@ucsb.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Hi all,<div dir="auto">I too was at the original meeting, where we voted at the end whether to use grammaticization or grammaticalization for the volume title. Hands went up, with a narrow majority preferring the longer form. But I couldn't help noticing that the majority of native speakers of English (especially Am. Eng.) preferred the shorter form, while non-native speakers (mostly of [continental] European languages) preferred the longer. </div><div dir="auto">Jack<br><br><div dir="auto">==============================<br>John W. Du Bois<br>Professor of Linguistics <br>University of California, Santa Barbara<br>Santa Barbara, California 93106<br>USA<br><a href="mailto:dubois@ucsb.edu" target="_blank">dubois@ucsb.edu</a></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 6:00 AM Dan I. SLOBIN <<a href="mailto:slobin@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">slobin@berkeley.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Just to muddy the waters a bit further, in the two volumes emerging from the 1988 Oregon conference (Traugott & Heine, 1991),</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Jim Matisoff went even further in his paper, "Areal and Universal Dimensions of Grammatization in Lahu (Matissof, 1991: 381):</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">"The term <i>grammaticalization</i>, despite its heptasyllabic cacophony (the more concise <i>grammaticization</i>, or even<i> grammatization</i></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">would be preferable) represents one of the most important phenomena in diachronic linguistics. Grammat(ic[al])ization is</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">inherently a diachronic concept."</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Like Joan Bybee, I opted for <i>grammaticization</i> for its economy and elegance, as I saw it; I continue to use that form, avoiding</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">the nuances that have emerged since between the erstwhile synonyms.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I appreciate Bernhard's placing of the emerging distinction between <i>grammaticalization</i> and <i>grammaticization</i> in the context of</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2">a general psycholinguistic process, citing
<span>Bréal</span> and Eve Clark who elaborated the point I made in an earlier posting.</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2">The editors of the Oregon conference volume accepted all three variants as titles of individual papers.</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2">Dan</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2">Elizabeth Closs Traugott & Bernd Heine (Eds.) (1991). <i>Approaches to grammaticalization. </i>Vol. 1: <i>Focus on theoretical and</i></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><i>methodological issues. </i>Vol. 2: <i>Focus on types of grammatical markers. </i>Amsterdam/Philadelphia: John Benjamins.</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font size="2">James A. Matisoff (1991). Areal and universal dimensions of grammatization in Lahu. <i>Ibid., </i>383-454.</font><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 10:32 AM MM Jocelyne Fernandez <<a href="mailto:mmjocelynefern@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mmjocelynefern@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Dear Paul,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In Frenchspeaking linguistic circles, a difference is generally
made between "grammaticalisation" and "grammaticisation": the
second one is reserved to those situations (rare in Europe but
relatively frequent in the world) where a language communication
system changes from purely oral to written style, typically after
an orthography and the accompanying means for preserving and
teaching the language have been adopted.</p>
<p> I have found it adequate to analyse the effects of
"grammaticisation" while following during 40 years the typological
evolution of Northern Sami (a Northwestern Uralic language,
nowadays culturally European) after a unified orthography was
adopted (and effectively applied) in 1979, observing what André
Martinet called "synchronic dynamics", and I would rather
distinguish it from "grammaticalisation" based on older sources
from a diachronical perspective.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Best regards from Paris</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>M.M.Jocelyne Fernandez-Vest<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-cite-prefix">Le 09/06/2019 à 16:27, Paul Hopper a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div id="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr">
<div id="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr">
<p>In the Preface to the first edition of our book
Grammaticalization (Cambridge UP 1993) we discussed our
choice of the longer form as follows:</p>
<p>"<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:medium">A word about the choice of the term
“grammaticalization”. As we note in more detail in
Chapter 2, the word seems to have been first used by
Meillet (1912). In recent linguistics there is some
variation between this word and the newer form
“grammaticization”. In adhering to the older form of the
word, we do not intend any theoretical point other than to
maintain a continuity of terminology. We believe that a
terminology can and should survive quite radical changes
in the ways the terms that comprise it are understood by
successive generations of scholars. Some linguists have
told us that they avoid the longer term because
“grammaticalization” could be understood as “entering the
grammar of a language,” i.e., becoming “grammatical”.
“Grammaticization”, by contrast, suggests a process
whereby a form may become fixed and constrained without
committing the linguist to a view of “grammar” as a fixed,
bounded entity. A similar point is sometimes made in a
different way: it is said that “grammaticalization”
stresses the historical perspective on grammatical forms,
while “grammaticization” focuses on the implications of
continually changing categories and meanings for a
synchronic view of language, thus placing the entire
notion of synchrony into question. It is far from obvious
that any such distinctions in usage exist between the two
words, and our own choice does not reflect any particular
theoretical position. We note that the titles of several
recent major works contain the longer form
“grammaticalization” (e.g., C. Lehmann 1985; Heine and Reh
1984; Traugott and Heine 1991; Heine, Claudi and
Hünnemeyer 1991)."</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:medium"> I think by the time of the second
edition (2003) we had concluded that the debate was no
longer current, the form with -al having
clearly prevailed. Surely we can agree that the two terms
will exist amicably side by side, according to preference
and with no valid claim of theoretical superiority on
either side.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:medium"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:medium">- Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018Signature">
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
__________</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Paul J. Hopper</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor Emeritus of
Humanities</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Department of English</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Carnegie Mellon University</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Pittsburgh PA 15213, USA</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Lingtyp <a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on
behalf of Nigel Vincent
<a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 9, 2019 8:58:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bernhard Wälchli; John Du Bois; Bill Palmer<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] grammaticalized v
grammaticized</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:10pt">
<div>I think usage here is probably often based on
individual choice. I have always avoided the term
'grammaticization' and have preferred 'grammaticalization'
in the diachronic sense and I would avoid both in the
synchronic sense. By contrast, Joan Bybee generally uses
'grammaticization' in the diachronic sense (except in her
chapter in The Oxford Handbook of Grammaticalization!),
and even refers to it as the 'more elegant' term in her
book with Perkins and Pagliuca 'The Evolution of Grammar'
- see p.4, footnote 2, an aesthetic judgement with which I
would personally disagree!</div>
<div>And with apologies for self-promotion, I briefly
discuss the interesting and important issue that Bernhard
raises about semantic change affecting technical
metalanguage in §6 of my article 'Conative' in 'Linguistic
Typology 17 (2013) 269-289.</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div>Nigel</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">Professor Nigel
Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
Professor Emeritus of General &
Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester</div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Linguistics & English
Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages and
Cultures<br>
</div>
<div><span class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>The
University of Manchester</div>
<div><span class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018divRpF206337" style="direction:ltr"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Lingtyp [<a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>] on
behalf of Bernhard Wälchli [<a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bernhard@ling.su.se" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bernhard@ling.su.se</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 09, 2019 12:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Du Bois; Bill Palmer<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] grammaticalized v
grammaticized<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr">
<div>As suggested by Dan, this discussion seems to be
a very nice case of Michel Bréal’s Loi de
répartition (based on earlier work by Gilliéron):
synonyms do not last for a long time, either they
acquire different meanings or one of the terms
disappears. Similar points have been made in
psycholinguistics and first language acquisition,
among other things by Eve Clark.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
Can we conclude from this that metalanguage for
describing language change is subject to
language change in the very same way as
everything else in language?</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12pt">Bréal, Michel. 1897.
Essai de sémantique. Science des significations.
Paris: Hachette.</span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12pt">
<div>
Clark, Eve V. 1988. On the logic of contrast.
Journal of Child Language 15.317–335.</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12pt">Gilliéron,
Jules. 1880. Patois de la commune de Vionnaz
(Bas-Valais). Paris: F. Vieweg. (=
Bibliothèque de l’école des hautes études.
Sciences philologique et historiques; Fasc.
40). </span></div>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12pt">Bernhard Wälchli</span><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp
<a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on
behalf of John Du Bois <a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dubois@ucsb.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><dubois@ucsb.edu></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 9, 2019 1:15:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bill Palmer<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] grammaticalized v
grammaticized</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">This distinction accords well with how
many people use the two terms, I think.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The study of grammaticization
focuses on functionally motivated patterns that
arise in synchronic language use (discourse
profiles), defining the environment to which
grammars adapt via emergence.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Grammaticalization focuses on the
historical processes that create new grammar,
driven by the discourse profiles plus additional
principles intrinsic to cultural evolution and
historical change.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The two are closely intertwined, of
course. A key task for functional linguistics is
to clarify how they interact to provide an
explanation for why grammars are as they are.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">Best,</div>
<div dir="auto">John<br>
<br>
<div dir="auto">==============================<br>
John W. Du Bois<br>
Professor of Linguistics <br>
University of California, Santa Barbara<br>
Santa Barbara, California 93106<br>
USA<br>
<a href="mailto:dubois@ucsb.edu" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">dubois@ucsb.edu</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jun 8,
2019, 9:11 PM Bill Palmer <<a href="mailto:bill.palmer@newcastle.edu.au" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">bill.palmer@newcastle.edu.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Dear all<br>
<br>
Juergen's email prompts me to ask a question I'd
be interested to get people's thoughts on.<br>
<br>
What is the relationship between the terms
grammaticalized and grammaticized? I use them to
refer to different things, but I don’t know to
what extent my usage corresponds to others'
understandings.<br>
<br>
I use grammaticized to refer to a synchronic
situation, and grammaticalized to refer to a
diachronic process. For example, I would say that
the category of auditory evidentiality ("I heard
[X happen]") is grammaticized in language X,
meaning that the category is expressed in the
language by a grammatical form; and I would say
that the verb 'hear' has grammaticalized as an
evidential marker in language X, meaning that a
form with a lexical meaning has developed into a
grammatical marker of some kind.<br>
<br>
Does this accord with anyone else's understanding
of these terms? Apologies if there's some obvious
literature on this I have missed.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Bill Palmer<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
On Behalf Of Bohnemeyer, Juergen<br>
Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2019 12:26 AM<br>
To: David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>><br>
Cc: Stephanie Evers <<a href="mailto:saevers@buffalo.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">saevers@buffalo.edu</a>>;
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Glossed corpora of
languages w/o grammaticalized definiteness marking<br>
<br>
Dear David — Good point! We use ‘definiteness’ to
denote a variety of similar language-specific
semantic categories that characterize the
discourse status of a nominal in terms of its
referent being discourse-old, previously mentioned
(etc.), and/or otherwise uniquely identifiable to
the interlocutors. Since unique identifiability
may be conferred by the speech situation, we
require that candidate devices not be restricted
to exophoric (spatial) reference in their regular
uses.
<br>
<br>
What we mean by ‘grammaticalized’ is that the
language has a particle, function word, or
inflection that is routinely used by the speakers
of the language to express the semantic category
in question. For illustration, I would assume
(perhaps wrongly so) that it is possible in any
language to use demonstratives to indicate
‘definiteness’, including in Russian - but Russian
speakers, so far as I know (and so far as
Stephanie Evers, the student working on this
project, was able to show in her Qualifying
Paper), do not regularly use demonstratives for
this purpose, at least not unless they wish to
place contrastive narrow focus on the nominal in
question.<br>
<br>
Why the restriction to particles, function words,
and inflections? Well, it is hard for me to see
how expressions that are for all intents and
purposes regular content words could be used to
indicate the ‘definiteness’ of another expression.
But, the ultimate goal of the project is to test
hypotheses about the conditions under which
dedicated definiteness marking emerges vs. does
not emerge in a language (family) or area. So if
such borderline cases exist, I suppose they would
in fact be of great interest to the project, even
if they do not meet the criteria laid out above.<br>
<br>
Best — Juergen<br>
<br>
> On Jun 7, 2019, at 1:32 AM, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Dear Juergen,<br>
> <br>
> Ian Joo mentioned our Indonesian corpus; a
better way of accessing a more complete version is
described at
<a href="https://linguistlist.org/issues/28/28-2007.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://linguistlist.org/issues/28/28-2007.html</a>.<br>
> <br>
> However, I am puzzled by your criteria,
specifically by the notion of "grammaticalized
definiteness (marking)", and a bit surprised
nobody so far in this thread has picked up on it.<br>
> <br>
> Both terms are problematic, as can be
exemplified via Indonesian. "Definiteness": well,
Indonesian has a couple of nominal markers, =nya
and itu, that are sometimes described as marking
definiteness, though I believe that they are more
appropriately analyzed otherwise, namely as
marking possession/association and deixis
respectively. So does Indonesian fail to meet
criterion 1, or does it in fact offer a nice
example of "alternative strategies" for marking
definiteness? Depends on your analysis.<br>
> <br>
> Then there's the notion of
"grammaticalized": what does it mean to say that
=nya and itu are grammaticalized? The former
marker, =nya, exhibits some properties that
suggest that it might be a clitic, but otherwise,
these markers would seem to exhibit grammatical
behaviour similar to most other content words in
the language. So are they "grammaticalized"?
Well it depends on what you mean by
"grammaticalized".<br>
> <br>
> I use Indonesian here merely as an
illustration; similar issues arise in very many
other languages.<br>
> <br>
> Best,<br>
> <br>
> David<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 06/06/2019 22:02, Bohnemeyer, Juergen
wrote:<br>
>> Dear colleagues — An advisee of mine is
looking for glossed texts to investigate the use
of strategies alternative to grammaticalized
definiteness marking. Basically, she’s trying to
identify about half a dozen genealogically and
areally unrelated languages each of which meets
all of the following criteria:<br>
>> <br>
>> 1. The language lacks grammaticalized
definiteness marking. <br>
>> <br>
>> 2. A text or corpus of texts is available
for the language that has Leipzig-standard
interlinear glosses and translations in English or
Spanish.<br>
>> <br>
>> 3. The text (corpus) comprises at least
about 1000 clauses, but ideally twice that or
more.<br>
>> <br>
>> 4. The individual texts should be
long-ish and their referring expressions shouldn’t
be predominately proper names.
<br>
>> <br>
>> If you’re aware of a language so
resourced, please let me know!<br>
>> <br>
>> Many thanks! — Juergen<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Juergen Bohnemeyer, Professor and
Director of Graduate Studies <br>
>> Department of Linguistics and Center for
Cognitive Science University <br>
>> at Buffalo<br>
>> <br>
>> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus *
Mailing address: 609 Baldy <br>
>> Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260<br>
>> Phone: (716) 645 0127<br>
>> Fax: (716) 645 3825 * Email: <br>
>> <a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jb77@buffalo.edu</a> *
Web:
<a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</a><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Office hours M 12:30 – 1:30pm / W 1:00 –
1:50 / F 12:30 – 1:50pm<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s
How The Light Gets In (Leonard <br>
>> Cohen)<br>
>> <br>
>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> Lingtyp mailing list<br>
>> <br>
>> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> David Gil<br>
> <br>
> Department of Linguistic and Cultural
Evolution Max Planck Institute <br>
> for the Science of Human History Kahlaische
Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, <br>
> Germany<br>
> <br>
> Email: <br>
> <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><br>
> <br>
> Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834 Mobile
Phone (Indonesia): <br>
> +62-81281162816<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
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> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
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http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br>
<br>
Juergen Bohnemeyer, Professor and Director of
Graduate Studies Department of Linguistics and
Center for Cognitive Science University at Buffalo
<br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus * Mailing
address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260<br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127<br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825 * Email: <a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
jb77@buffalo.edu</a> * Web: <a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</a> <br>
<br>
Office hours M 12:30 – 1:30pm / W 1:00 – 1:50 / F
12:30 – 1:50pm<br>
<br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The
Light Gets In (Leonard Cohen)<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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<div class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-signature">-- <br>
M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-signature">Professor Emerita</div>
<div class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail-m_5516952479887211018moz-signature">CNRS & Université Sorbonne Nouvelle</div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-8410108083858826013m_-2214460076352081982gmail_signature"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman"><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> </font></span></i></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman">Dan I. Slobin </font></span></i></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman">Professor Emeritus of
Psychology and Linguistics</font></span></i></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman">University of California,
Berkeley</font></span></i></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman">email: <a href="mailto:slobin@berkeley.edu" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">slobin@berkeley.edu</a></font></span></i></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman">address: 2323 Rose St.,
Berkeley, CA 94708</font></span></i></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://ihd.berkeley.edu/members.htm#slobin" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ihd.berkeley.edu/members.htm#slobin</a></font></span></i></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8pt"><font face="Times New Roman"><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> </font></span></i></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
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