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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Eva's post raises the interesting
      general question whether markers that occur under two necessary
      conditions should be said to mark both of these simultaneously:<br>
      <br>
      – Do Quechua markers like -mi or -si "mark" only evidentiality, or
      do they also "mark" focus (because they always occur on the
      focused constituent and thus serve to identify it)?<br>
      <br>
      – Do ("optional") ergative markers in Jaminjung "mark" the nominal
      only for ergative role, or do they also "mark" focus (because they
      are generally restricted to focused nominals and thus serve to
      identify the nominals as fucused)?<br>
      <br>
      – Do case flags in "split" systems, like the preposition a+ in
      Spanish (which is generally restricted to animate nominals),
      "mark" only the syntactic role, or do they also "mark" animacy?<br>
      <br>
      – Do plural markers that occur only when the nominal is definite
      or animate only mark "plural", or do they also "mark" definiteness
      or animacy? (This often happens in creole languages, see
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://apics-online.info/parameters/22.chapter.html">https://apics-online.info/parameters/22.chapter.html</a>)<br>
      <br>
      Linguists often say that these markers have one "function", and
      the other factor that plays a role in their occurrence is a
      "condition", but I often find these difficult to distinguish.
      Couldn't one say (conversely) that the Jaminjung nominal focus
      marker is restricted in its distribution in that it only occurs
      when the nominal is a (transitive) agent?<br>
      <br>
      (In other words, couldn't one say that in cases of this sort, the
      marker has two functions simultaneously? – Sorry, this is leading
      away from Fritz Newmeyer's original post.)<br>
      <br>
      Martin<br>
      <br>
      On 02.08.19 22:10, Eva Schultze-Berndt wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:D936E42B14E7844A83785499BD3687E001B9D7C4CB@MBXP10.ds.man.ac.uk">
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        <div>Quite apart from the problems of defining focus (on which
          I'm less sceptical than the sources Eitan cites), in some of
          the categories that have been cited the literature as focus
          markers the question arises whether they really *mark* focus,
          or are rather (i) attracted to a focused constituent, or (ii)
          focus plays a role in their distribution.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Regarding (i), I'm not a Quechuanist, but have had
          discussions with colleagues who are, and it is by no means
          clear that everyone considers evidentials in these languages
          as also marking focus, rather than as attaching to the focused
          constituent.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Regarding (ii), I have worked on "optional" ergativity, and
          would not consider ergative marking associated with focus as
          "marking" focus. In any of the types of "classical" split
          ergative system, with a split, say, between humans and
          non-humans, or non-past and past, we would not consider the
          ergative case as a marker of the categories of "non-human" or
          "past" – either because there is a clear segmental marking
          already (past), or because there is no marking of the category
          at all outside agents (non-human). So if ergative case only
          occurs on focused agents (at least probabilistically – such
          systems often don't seem to be entirely categorical),
          recognisable as focused through prosody and context,<span
            style="font-size: 14pt;"> why would we consider the ergative
            as a focus marker?</span></div>
        <div><span style="font-size: 14pt;"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Eva</span></div>
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                              <div style="font-size:13px;
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                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">Eva
                                  Schultze-Berndt</span></div>
                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">Professor of
                                  Linguistics</span></div>
                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">Linguistics
                                  and English Language</span></div>
                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">School of
                                  Arts, Languages and Cultures</span></div>
                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">The
                                  University of Manchester</span></div>
                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">Oxford Road</span></div>
                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">M13 9PL</span></div>
                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">Manchester,
                                  UK</span></div>
                              <div style="font-size:13px;
                                font-family:Tahoma"><span
                                  class="Apple-style-span"
                                  style="font-size:medium">E-mail:
                                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:eva.schultze-berndt@manchester.ac.uk">eva.schultze-berndt@manchester.ac.uk</a></span></div>
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    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10   
D-07745 Jena  
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik 
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig  </pre>
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