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<p>This happens in Mari dialects as well: the pronouns nine 'these'
and nuno 'those; they' can be encountered with the adnominal
plural marker -βlak: nine-βlak, nuno-βlak.</p>
<p>All the best,<br>
Jeremy<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/11/2019 15:21, Johanna Laakso
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:55E41A2B-A857-4546-B10B-8BF131848BFE@univie.ac.at">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
The Hungarian case is a bit different: the -nk element in "mink"
‘we’ is, as Edith writes, a possessor or subject-person 1PL
marker. But the use of general common-noun plural markers on
plural pronouns actually does occur in some Uralic languages (and
also independently of contacts with Turkic). In quite a few Finnic
varieties, we have nominative plural markers (Proto-Finnic -t or
its reflexes) on the plural personal (and sometimes also
demonstrative) pronouns, as in Far North Finnish dialects (also
Kven and Meänkieli) met, tet, het ‘we, you.PL, they’ (~ Standard
Finnish me, te, he). In the inflection of Finnic plural pronouns,
the plural element occurs regularly, as in Standard Finnish
me-i-lle we-PL-ADESSIVE ‘to us’ (cf. talo-i-lle ‘to the houses’).
Komi dialects have (as opposed to Standard Komi najö ‘they’) also
‘they’ pronouns carrying the regular (a Permic innovation) plural
marker -jas: najöjas or najas ‘they’.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">And, in fact, coming back to Hungarian, it regularly
builds the plural forms of third-person and demonstrative
pronouns with the general common-noun plural marker -k: ők
‘they’ (ő ‘s/he’), eze-k ‘these’ (ez ‘this’), azo-k ‘those’ (az
‘that’).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best</div>
<div class="">Johanna </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">--</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Univ.Prof. Dr.
Johanna Laakso</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Universität Wien,
Institut für Europäische und Vergleichende Sprach- und
Literaturwissenschaft (EVSL)</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Abteilung
Finno-Ugristik</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Campus AAKH
Spitalgasse 2-4 Hof 7</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">A-1090 Wien</div>
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><a
href="mailto:johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at</a> • <a
href="http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/</a></div>
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Project ELDIA: <a
href="http://www.eldia-project.org/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.eldia-project.org/</a> </div>
<div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Edith A Moravcsik <<a
href="mailto:edith@uwm.edu" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">edith@uwm.edu</a>> kirjoitti
15.11.2019 kello 19.52:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hello
Ponrawee,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">In
Hungarian, the first person plural pronoun is
monomorphemic<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">mi</i>. However, in some colloquial
versions,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">the form<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">mink</i><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>also occurs.
The ending -<i class="">nk</i><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is a first
person plural suffix on verbs and on possessions,
e.g.:<br class="">
<br class="">
usz-unk ‘we are swimming’<br class="">
csodá-nk ‘our miracle’’<br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Best,<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Edith M.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b
class="">From:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lingtyp <<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Ponrawee
Prasertsom<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday,
November 15, 2019 10:01 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Lingtyp]
Plural markers on (already) plural pronouns<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dear
all,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I
have been looking at a number of Tai languages and
found that in some of these languages, plural
pronouns can optionally take a plural marker
normally used on common nouns. For instance, in
Shan (Southwestern Tai), the third person plural
pronoun<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">khau</i><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>can
optionally take the plural marker<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">cɯ(nai)</i>, viz.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">khau cɯ(nai)--</i>at least according to
Cushing 1871.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Assuming
this analysis is correct (if it's not please
kindly inform me), I'm wondering how rare this is
for pronouns? A quick lookup revealed that a
similar phenomenon called "double plural marking"
is found in some languages, but seems to be
restricted to common nouns only. Does anyone know
of any other instances like this for pronouns in
other languages?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">Sources: Cushing, Josiah Nelson.
Grammar of the Shan Language. Rangoon: American
Mission Press, 1871.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class="">Best regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">--<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="letter-spacing: 0.15pt;" class="">Ponrawee
Prasertsom</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Graduate Student<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Department of
Linguistics<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
style="letter-spacing: 0.15pt;" class="">Faculty
of Arts, </span>Chulalongkorn University<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif;" class="">Bangkok, Thailand<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Jeremy Bradley, Ph.D.
University of Vienna
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mari-language.com">http://www.mari-language.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jeremy.moss.bradley@univie.ac.at">jeremy.moss.bradley@univie.ac.at</a>
Office address:
Institut EVSL
Abteilung Finno-Ugristik
Universität Wien
Campus AAKH, Hof 7-2
Spitalgasse 2-4
1090 Wien
AUSTRIA
Mobile: +43-664-99-31-788
Skype: jeremy.moss.bradley </pre>
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