<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The Hungarian case is a bit different: the -nk element in "mink" ‘we’ is, as Edith writes, a possessor or subject-person 1PL marker. But the use of general common-noun plural markers on plural pronouns actually does occur in some Uralic languages (and also independently of contacts with Turkic). In quite a few Finnic varieties, we have nominative plural markers (Proto-Finnic -t or its reflexes) on the plural personal (and sometimes also demonstrative) pronouns, as in Far North Finnish dialects (also Kven and Meänkieli) met, tet, het ‘we, you.PL, they’ (~ Standard Finnish me, te, he). In the inflection of Finnic plural pronouns, the plural element occurs regularly, as in Standard Finnish me-i-lle we-PL-ADESSIVE ‘to us’ (cf. talo-i-lle ‘to the houses’). Komi dialects have (as opposed to Standard Komi najö ‘they’) also ‘they’ pronouns carrying the regular (a Permic innovation) plural marker -jas: najöjas or najas ‘they’.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And, in fact, coming back to Hungarian, it regularly builds the plural forms of third-person and demonstrative pronouns with the general common-noun plural marker -k: ők ‘they’ (ő ‘s/he’), eze-k ‘these’ (ez ‘this’), azo-k ‘those’ (az ‘that’).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best</div><div class="">Johanna </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">--</div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Univ.Prof. Dr. Johanna Laakso</div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Universität Wien, Institut für Europäische und Vergleichende Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft (EVSL)</div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Abteilung Finno-Ugristik</div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Campus AAKH Spitalgasse 2-4 Hof 7</div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">A-1090 Wien</div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><a href="mailto:johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at" class="">johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at</a> • <a href="http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/" class="">http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/</a></div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Project ELDIA: <a href="http://www.eldia-project.org/" class="">http://www.eldia-project.org/</a> </div><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Edith A Moravcsik <<a href="mailto:edith@uwm.edu" class="">edith@uwm.edu</a>> kirjoitti 15.11.2019 kello 19.52:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hello Ponrawee,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">In Hungarian, the first person plural pronoun is monomorphemic<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">mi</i>. However, in some colloquial versions,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">the form<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">mink</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>also occurs. The ending -<i class="">nk</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is a first person plural suffix on verbs and on possessions, e.g.:<br class=""><br class="">usz-unk ‘we are swimming’<br class="">csodá-nk ‘our miracle’’<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Edith M.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Ponrawee Prasertsom<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, November 15, 2019 10:01 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Lingtyp] Plural markers on (already) plural pronouns<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dear all,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I have been looking at a number of Tai languages and found that in some of these languages, plural pronouns can optionally take a plural marker normally used on common nouns. For instance, in Shan (Southwestern Tai), the third person plural pronoun<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">khau</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>can optionally take the plural marker<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">cɯ(nai)</i>, viz.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">khau cɯ(nai)--</i>at least according to Cushing 1871.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Assuming this analysis is correct (if it's not please kindly inform me), I'm wondering how rare this is for pronouns? A quick lookup revealed that a similar phenomenon called "double plural marking" is found in some languages, but seems to be restricted to common nouns only. Does anyone know of any other instances like this for pronouns in other languages?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Sources: Cushing, Josiah Nelson. Grammar of the Shan Language. Rangoon: American Mission Press, 1871.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Best regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="letter-spacing: 0.15pt;" class="">Ponrawee Prasertsom</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Graduate Student<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Department of Linguistics<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="letter-spacing: 0.15pt;" class="">Faculty of Arts, </span>Chulalongkorn University<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Bangkok, Thailand<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Lingtyp mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
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