<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Martin,<br>
Object pro-drop is perfectly normal and rule-governed in German. I
think objects are systematically dropped in the Forefield when
they are inanimate and highly topical, e.g.<br>
</p>
<p>A: Kennst du den Film? ('Do you know the film?')<br>
B: Ja, hab ich gestern gesehen. ('Yes, I saw [it] yesterday.')</p>
<p>This is not possible in the Middle Field:</p>
<p>B: *Ja, ich hab gestern gesehen.</p>
<p>And it seems to be awkward with animate referents:</p>
<p>A: Hast du Lee heute schon gesehen?<br>
B: ?Ja, hab ich vorhin in der Cafeteria getroffen.<br>
</p>
<p>I am not sure to what extent our descriptive grammars acknowledge
that (though the Duden grammar is much less prescriptive than it
is sometimes claimed to be.)</p>
<p>One thing that grammars (still) get systematically wrong is that
the er/sie/es-Paradigm is treated as the only set of anaphoric
pronouns. I think in the Forefield, you HAVE to use der/die/das if
you want to sound native. For instance,</p>
<p>B': Ja, sie habe ich vorhin in der Cafeteria getroffen.</p>
<p>is a typical sentence uttered by an excellent non-native student
of German, following the rules of the course books. Native
speakers, I think, would never say this, but rather<br>
</p>
<p>B: Ja, die habe ich vorhin in der Cafeteria getroffen.</p>
<p>Well, that's at least my intuition ... and it is of course
totally in accordance with your generalization. But it shows
perhaps that we should not rely too much on information taken from
grammars (I haven't checked what the Duden grammar says about
object pro-drop though.)</p>
<p>Note that two paradigms (er/sie/es, der/die/das) also differ in
their phonological properties. If 'er' is stressed, it can only
refer to an animate referent. This does not apply to 'der'. If you
point at an object of masculine gender, e.g. a computer, you can't
use 'er':<br>
</p>
<p>* Was kostet denn ER? (What does this one cost?')</p>
<p>This would definitely be slave trade. Again, you'd have to use
'der':</p>
<p>Was kostet DER (hier)?</p>
<p>The pronoun 'es' doesn't even have a stressed form, so 'das' is
the only option in many cases anyway.<br>
</p>
<p>Best,<br>
Volker<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 16.12.2019 um 15:13 schrieb
Haspelmath, Martin:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a4508cd8-fe68-6e08-f2ec-6d13d546cda2@shh.mpg.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"></span><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"></span><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I have a question on 3rd person anaphoric
pronouns in the world’s languages. In many languages, these
are optional when they refer to a continuous topic, not only
in subject (S/A) role, but also in object (P) role. So we get
patterns like the following:</span>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">– Have you seen Lee today?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">– Yes, I met (her) in the cafeteria.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I’m wondering if the following universal tendency
is true:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(U) In almost all languages, if the anaphoric
object pronoun is obligatory, it is a bound form (= a form
that cannot occur on its own, i.e. an affix or a clitic).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Spanish and Arabic are examples of languages
where the obligatory anaphoric object forms are bound (clitic
or affix). English and German are exceptions to this
generalization (and perhaps a few other European languages as
well). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">But are there many exceptions? According to
Siewierska (2004: 43), about two thirds of all languages (223
out of 378 in
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wals.info/feature/102A">her WALS chapter</a>)
have bound object person forms (= object indexes), so the
hypothesized universal tendency is a question about those
languages that lack object indexes, and have only independent
personal pronouns or demonstratives for object function. Are
there many among them which (like English) obligatorily
require an overt form in this function?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Or are most of them like Mandarin Chinese, which
according to Wiedenhof (2015: §5.2.2) happily allows
zero-anaphora sentences like
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Nǐ yào ma?</i> [you
want Q] ‘Do you want it?’</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I’m interested in all reports of languages
outside of Europe which are unlike Mandarin, and like English,
in this respect.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Many thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Martin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:roman;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073697537 9 0 511 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-unhide:no;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-default-props:yes;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}
@page WordSection1
{size:595.0pt 842.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt;
mso-header-margin:35.4pt;
mso-footer-margin:35.4pt;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
-->
</style>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig </pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>