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<p><font size="+1">Dear All.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I sense that Martin's original question has been
sidetracked in the ensuing discussion, so I'll contribute some
thoughts on that, with some references. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">The original query concerned a possible
unidirectional correlation between (a) obligatoriness of object
pronouns, and (b) bound versus free form of expression:</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">(1) "</font><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">In
almost all languages, if the anaphoric object pronoun is
obligatory, it is a bound form (= a form that cannot occur on
its own, i.e. an affix or a clitic)."</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">As several people have
mentioned, there are a couple of problems with this, most
notably the notion of 'obligatory' and the notion of 'bound'.
In particular 'obligatory' is problematic, because in fact
there are very few languages where object pronouns are always
required (even in English, objects that are propositional
following verbs such as KNOW, HEAR etc. are not obligatory;
perhaps these sentential objects could be taken as the bottom
line in an animacy scale); most object indexing is conditioned
(Haig 2018), e.g. via animacy, topicality etc., though if you
want to consider rule-governed conditioning as a special case
of obligatory, that's ok with me.<br>
</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">An alternative approach to
this is a corpus or token-based approach, where we might
re-phrase the tendency as follows:</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">(2) Zero expresssion of
objects is overall less frequent in languages with bound
object pronouns than with free object pronouns.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">There has been quite a lot of
corpus-based work on zero anaphora with objects recently.
Schnell & Haig (2014) looked at object pronouns, bound and
free, in a small sample of language corpora - too small to
draw any definitive conclusions, but we noted among other
things a contrast between two closely related languages
(Central Kurdish and Northern Kurdish), which differ in that
the former has clitic object pronouns, while the latter lacks
them. The rate of zero objects (3rd person only) was indeed
quite different. The relevant figures are (Tables 6 & 7,
pp.114-116):</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">Central Kurdish (with bound
object indexing): 3% zero object pronouns (N=352)</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">Northern Kurdish (no bound
object indexing): 17% zero object pronouns (N=370)</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">This is obviously very
tentative, but I suspect that the general principle suggested
in (2) would merit closer investigation.</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">A more detailed and
methodologically more sophisticated case study of zero
pronouns in discourse is Schnell & Barth (2018) on Vera'a
(Oceanic).<br>
</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">More recently we have compared
rates of zeroes in various functions, including objects,
across the language corpora in Multi-CAST (</span></font><font
size="+1"><span lang="EN-US"><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">the
raw data are all available in Multi-CAST, Mandarin is on
its way)</span></font>. Interestingly enough, Mandarin
turns out to be not an extreme case - we had higher rates on
Sanzhi (Nakh-Daghestanian, Tondano (Phillippine type) and
Northern Kurdish (Iranian, Indo-European). The real outlier in
our sample was English with its exceedingly low level of
zeroes (see Vollmer 2017 and ongoing work in the Multi-CAST
framework).</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">Season's greetings</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">Geoff</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US">References:</span></font><br>
<span lang="EN-US">Haig, Geoffrey. 2018. The grammaticalization of
object pronouns: Why differential object indexing is an
attractor state, <em>Linguistics </em>56(4): 781–818,
DOI: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://doi.org/10.1515/ling-2018-0011">https://doi.org/10.1515/ling-2018-0011</a></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Multi-CAST online resource, citable as: </span><span
lang="EN-US">Haig, Geoffrey & Schnell, Stefan (eds.), <em>Multi-CAST:
Multilingual corpus of annotated spoken texts.</em> (<span
class="citeurl">multicast.aspra.uni-bamberg.de/</span>) (date
accessed) </span></p>
<p>Schnell, Stefan & Danielle Barth. 2018. Discourse motivations
for pronominal and zero objects across genres in Vera’a<em>.
Language Variation & Change </em>30.1, 51-81.<br>
<span lang="EN-US">Schnell, Stefan & Geoffrey Haig. 2014.
Assessing the relationship between object topicalisation and the
grammaticalisation of object agreement. <em>Selected Papers
from the 44th Conference of the Australian Linguistic Society,
</em>2013, edited by Lauren Gawne and Jill Vaughan, <a
href="http://www.academia.edu/10604443/Assessing_the_relationship_between_object_topicalisation_and_the_grammaticalisation_of_object_agreement."
target="external">http://www.academia.edu/10604443/Assessing_the_relationship_between_object_topicalisation_and_the_grammaticalisation_of_object_agreement.</a><br>
</span></p>
<p>Vollmer, Maria. 2019. How radical is pro-drop in Mandarin? A
quantitative corpus study on referential choice in Mandarin
Chinese. MA-Thesis, University of Bamberg.<br>
<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"></span><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I think a couple of terms in this </font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.12.2019 um 05:51 schrieb Randy
LaPolla:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3D8D2E93-5873-4945-B80E-16E37FC489F6@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Hi All,
<div>Can I make an appeal for using natural data in discussing
this (and everything else)? Even for those who distinguish
morphosyntax and pragmatics, this is clearly a situation where
one has to take into account the communicative situation and the
intention of the speaker. </div>
<div>It is very easy to find natural examples. Here is one from
the first Chinese web page I looked at (<a
href="https://m.ppzuowen.com/book/xiaomaoriji/lansedetuerduocao/53393.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://m.ppzuowen.com/book/xiaomaoriji/lansedetuerduocao/53393.html</a>)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>No anaphor:</div>
<div><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
font-family: "Microsoft YaHei", 微软雅黑,
"Microsoft JhengHei", 华文细黑, STHeiti, MingLiu;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
font-family: "Microsoft YaHei", 微软雅黑,
"Microsoft JhengHei", 华文细黑, STHeiti, MingLiu;">“哪里有死神？我怎么没看见？”</span></div>
<div><font size="3" face="Microsoft YaHei, 微软雅黑, Microsoft
JhengHei, 华文细黑, STHeiti, MingLiu"><span
style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">“Where is there (a)
Death Spirit? How is it I never saw (one)?</span></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>with anaphor (same story):</div>
<div><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
font-family: "Microsoft YaHei", 微软雅黑,
"Microsoft JhengHei", 华文细黑, STHeiti, MingLiu;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 16px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
font-family: "Microsoft YaHei", 微软雅黑,
"Microsoft JhengHei", 华文细黑, STHeiti, MingLiu;">整整一个晚上，我就这么守护着雨樱，决不让死神再靠近她。</span></div>
<div>’The whole night I watched over Yu Ying this way, no way
would I allow the Death Spirit to come near her. ‘</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In this case it would have been possible for the writer to
not use the anaphoric pronoun, but the meaning would be
different: with the pronoun the writer restricts the
interpretation of who the Death Spirit would not be allowed to
come near to Yu Ying, whereas without the pronoun the
interpretation would not be constrained in this way, and so
could be understood as ‘near us’. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Randy</div>
<div>Sent from my phone</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 17 Dec 2019, at 6:19 AM, Alex
Francois <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:francois@vjf.cnrs.fr"><francois@vjf.cnrs.fr></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">dear Chao,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I realise that
the examples you cite for animate pro-drop all follow
a particular structure, namely, they are responses to
polar questions, in which the verb is simply repeated,
often dropping its subject and/or its object. Yet I
agree with David's point, that this is a specific
pragmatic context, which may have its own rules, in
languages like Hebrew and Mandarin.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">So it's possible
that we are not actually carrying out the same test in
all languages.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">If we come back
to Martin's question, I believe we should first agree
on a particular syntactic context to be tested. This
would make our data comparable across languages, and
give stronger value to our generalisations ("structure
X is allowed in language A but not in language B"). <br>
In this case, the test could be defined as follows:</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">
<ul>
<li>The test sentence must have a transitive verb,
which is <u>not</u> the mere repetition of a
previous verb (as in a reply to a polar
question). </li>
<li>Its grammatical object is a participant that is
already activated in discourse (topical), and is
retrieved anaphorically.</li>
<li>Can this object be zero-expressed? </li>
<li>In each language, the test could be carried out
with </li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">(1) a speech
act participant</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">(2) a human
referent</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">(3) a
non-human, animate referent</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">(4) an
inanimate referent.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Here would be
possible questionnaire sentences:</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style=""><font
face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif" color="#660000">(<b
style="">1</b>) My sister knows you already.
She saw [[you]] last month at the party.<br>
</font>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="trebuchet
ms, sans-serif" color="#660000"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"
color="#660000">(<b style="">2</b>) You know my
sister already. You saw [[her]] last month at the
party.<br>
</font>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="trebuchet
ms, sans-serif" color="#660000"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"
color="#660000">(<b style="">3</b>) You know my
cat already. You saw [[it]] last month in my
home.<br>
</font>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="trebuchet
ms, sans-serif" color="#660000"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="trebuchet
ms, sans-serif" color="#660000">(<b style="">4</b>)
You do know that song. You sang [[it]] last
year in class.</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Mwotlap
(Vanuatu) has obligatory expression of the object for
sentences (1)–(2)–(3), using free pronouns; </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">it has
obligatory dropping (zero expression) of the object in
(4).</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">English and
French have obligatory expression of the object in all
four sentences.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">What about
Mandarin? Hebrew? other languages?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">According to
Jürgen's message, Mayan would have segmental
realisation of the object in (1), but zero in
(2)–(3)–(4).</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I propose the
following hypothesis (which needs to be tested): <br>
Languages will locate the boundary between overt and
zero expression of the object somewhere along that
scale {1>2>3>4}, with overt expression to the
left and zero to the right. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">best</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><span
class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"></span><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Alex</span></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" width="70"
size="1" noshade="noshade" align="left">
<div style="font-family:"Segoe
UI",Verdana,"Trebuchet
MS",Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,102,102);font-size:11px;line-height:16.5px">
<p style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif">Alex
François</p>
<p><span
style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" rel="noopener"
style="text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">LaTTiCe</a> — <a
title="ENS"
href="http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">CNRS–</a><a
title="ENS"
href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ENS</a>–<a
title="ENS"
href="http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Sorbonne
nouvelle</a><br>
<a
href="https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Australian
National University</a><br>
<a
href="https://cnrs.academia.edu/AlexFran%C3%A7ois"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Academia
page</a> – <a
href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Personal
homepage</a></span></p>
<hr
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"
size="1"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><span
style="color:rgb(51,102,102);font-family:"Segoe
UI",Verdana,"Trebuchet
MS",Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:11px"> </span></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 at
22:29, Chao Li <<a
href="mailto:chao.li@aya.yale.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">chao.li@aya.yale.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Dear Alex
and Martin,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I agree
with Alex, Eitan, and Volker that animacy is an
important factor when all the contexts of
object-drop are examined. At the same time, I
would like to add that, with respect to
Mandarin, animate objects may also be naturally
dropped, and this is particularly true of
conversational contexts, as shown in (1-2). <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">(1)<span>
</span>A: <span> </span>你喜欢他(/她)吗？</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">Nǐ
xǐhuan tā (/tā) ma?<span> <br>
</span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"><span>
you like him(/her)
Question.Particle<br>
</span></span></span>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">
‘Do you like him(/her)?'<span> <br>
</span></span></p>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">
</span>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%">
B</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN">: </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"> </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN">当然喜欢啦。<br>
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
Dāngrán xǐhuan la. <br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
of.course like
Sentence.Final.Particle <br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
'(I) of course like (him/her).' <br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">(2)
A: (holding a picture）</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
你见过这个人吗？</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
Nǐ jiàn-guo
zhè-gè rén ma?</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
you see-Experiential this-Classifier
person Question.Particle <br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
'Did you see this person before?'</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
B: 我没见过。</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
Wǒ méi jiàn-guo.</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
I not see-Experiential <br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">
'I didn't.' <br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">Best
regards,</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%"
lang="ZH-CN"><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">Chao</span></span></span></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 16,
2019 at 10:30 AM Alex Francois <<a
href="mailto:francois@vjf.cnrs.fr"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">francois@vjf.cnrs.fr</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">
<div>dear Martin,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One dimension you forgot to mention,
and which appears crucial to me for any
study of that sort, is animacy. </div>
<div>I can think of many languages where
zero-anaphora is allowed (or even the
rule) for inanimate patients, while it
would be less possible for animate ~ human
ones.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think this is true, for example, for
the <b>Mandarin </b>example you cite:</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">今天早上我见到了<b><font
color="#9900ff">她</font></b>。<br>
</div>
<div><font face="monospace">Jīntiān
zǎoshang wǒ jiàndào le <b><font
color="#9900ff">tā</font></b>.<br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><font face="monospace">today
morning 1sg see PFT 3sg:(Fem)</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">'I
saw <u style="font-weight:bold">her</u> this
morning.'</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">今天早上我见到了。</font><br>
<div>
<div>
<div><font face="monospace">Jīntiān
zǎoshang wǒ jiàndào le <font
color="#9900ff">∅</font>.<br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font face="monospace">today
morning 1sg see PFT ∅</font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">'I
saw <u style="font-weight:bold">it</u> this
morning.'</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">(Chinese
speakers and experts, please correct me.)</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><b>Mwotlap
</b>(and other northern Vanuatu languages)
would be similar: Zero anaphora is the
norm for non-human objects, but not
expected for human objects:</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div><font face="verdana,
sans-serif">No m-eksas <font
color="#9900ff"><b>kē </b> </font>aqyig
lemtap<br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><font face="monospace">1sg
PFT-see 3sg today:Past
morning</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:medium none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><span
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">'I
saw </span><u
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-weight:bold">her</u><span
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"> this morning.'</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;margin:0px
0px 0px 40px;border:medium
none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;margin:0px
0px 0px 40px;border:medium
none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font face="verdana,
sans-serif">No
m-eksas </font><b><font
color="#9900ff">∅</font></b><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"><font
color="#9900ff"><b> </b>
</font>aqyig
lemtap<br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font
face="monospace">1sg
PFT-see </font>∅<font
face="monospace"> today:Past
morning</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;margin:0px
0px 0px 40px;border:medium
none;padding:0px">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>'I saw <u
style="font-weight:bold">it</u> this
morning.'</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I
don't think that Mandarin <i>tā</i> qualifies
as a clitic; nor does Mwotlap <i>kē</i>. </div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Insofar
as they are obligatorily expressed for
animate patients, then these cases would
constitute, like English, exceptions to
the general principle you're proposing.</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">best</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font
size="2">Alex</font></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"
width="70"
size="1"
noshade="noshade"
align="left">
<div
style="font-family:"Segoe
UI",Verdana,"Trebuchet
MS",Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,102,102);font-size:11px;line-height:16.5px">
<p
style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif">Alex
François</p>
<p><span
style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" rel="noopener"
style="text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">LaTTiCe</a> — <a
title="ENS"
href="http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">CNRS–</a><a title="ENS"
href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ENS</a>–<a title="ENS"
href="http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Sorbonne nouvelle</a><br>
<a
href="https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Australian National University</a><br>
<a
href="https://cnrs.academia.edu/AlexFran%C3%A7ois"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Academia page</a> – <a
href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/"
rel="noopener"
style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Personal homepage</a></span></p>
<hr
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"
size="1"> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 16
Dec 2019 at 15:13, Haspelmath, Martin <<a
href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"></span><span
lang="EN-US"></span><span lang="EN-US">I
have a question on 3rd person
anaphoric pronouns in the world’s
languages. In many languages, these
are optional when they refer to a
continuous topic, not only in subject
(S/A) role, but also in object (P)
role. So we get patterns like the
following:</span>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">–
Have you seen Lee today?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">–
Yes, I met (her) in the cafeteria.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I’m
wondering if the following universal
tendency is true:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(U)
In almost all languages, if the
anaphoric object pronoun is
obligatory, it is a bound form (= a
form that cannot occur on its own,
i.e. an affix or a clitic).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Spanish
and Arabic are examples of languages
where the obligatory anaphoric object
forms are bound (clitic or affix).
English and German are exceptions to
this generalization (and perhaps a few
other European languages as well). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">But
are there many exceptions? According
to Siewierska (2004: 43), about two
thirds of all languages (223 out of
378 in
<a
href="https://wals.info/feature/102A"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">her WALS
chapter</a>) have bound object
person forms (= object indexes), so
the hypothesized universal tendency is
a question about those languages that
lack object indexes, and have only
independent personal pronouns or
demonstratives for object function.
Are there many among them which (like
English) obligatorily require an overt
form in this function?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Or
are most of them like Mandarin
Chinese, which according to Wiedenhof
(2015: §5.2.2) happily allows
zero-anaphora sentences like
<i>Nǐ yào ma?</i> [you want Q] ‘Do
you want it?’</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I’m
interested in all reports of languages
outside of Europe which are unlike
Mandarin, and like English, in this
respect.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Many
thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Martin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<pre cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig </pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prof. Dr. Geoffrey Haig
Lehrstuhl Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
Universität Bamberg
Schillerplatz 17
96047 Bamberg
Tel. ++49 (0)951 863 2490
Admin. ++49 (0)951 863 2491
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.uni-bamberg.de/aspra/team/prof-dr-geoffrey-haig/">https://www.uni-bamberg.de/aspra/team/prof-dr-geoffrey-haig/</a>
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