<div dir="ltr">A note on terminology: a founder effect is a bottleneck - a subsample extraction from a larger population. It's hard to see how Proto-world is that. It's not the same thing as a small number of initial speakers that have not been sampled from a larger population of language users.<div>Claire</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 5:26 PM Peter Bakker <<a href="mailto:linpb@cc.au.dk">linpb@cc.au.dk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Dear Martin and all,</div>
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I think it was in this book from 2007:</div>
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<h2 style="margin:0px 0px 14px;font-family:Georgia,"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(0,33,71);font-size:2.1em;line-height:1.25em">
The Genesis of Grammar</h2>
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A Reconstruction</h2>
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<b>Bernd Heine</b><span> </span>and<span> </span><b>Tania Kuteva</b></h3>
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</b></div>
<div>that Heine & Kuteva used grammaticalisation to reconstruct a kind of Proto-World. For instance, simplified, we know that all (etymologizable) adpositions in the languages of the world are derived from either nouns or (serial) verbs, therefore the original
language had nouns and verbs. It is a while ago that I read the book, but I think that was one of the points they made. </div>
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Peter Bakker</div>
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<div id="gmail-m_-7186591623543285791divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>Fra:</b> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> på vegne af Haspelmath, Martin <<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>><br>
<b>Sendt:</b> 20. januar 2020 18:45<br>
<b>Til:</b> LINGTYP LINGTYP <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>><br>
<b>Emne:</b> [Lingtyp] Proto-World explains universals</font>
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<div>Dear all,<br>
<br>
Does anyone know a case where it has been proposed (or suggested) concretely that an observed universal tendency (or absolute universal) is due to inheritance from Proto-World?<br>
<br>
Cysouw (2011: 417) has suggested this as a possibility:<br>
<br>
<font size="-1">"It is possible that there are still founder effects available in the current distribution of the world’s languages, i.e., that there are preferences in the current world’s languages that go back to incidental events during the spread of languages
over the world (Maslova 2000)."</font><br>
<br>
But while this is logically possible, are there any concrete suggestions with a global scope?<br>
Word order universals such as the Greenbergian correlations, or phonological universals such as vowel dispersion cannot be due to Proto-World (or some other founder effect), because the universality lies in the implicational patterns, not in specific structures
that all languages share. Has anyone suggested that any other universal properties (e.g. the fact that all languages can express negation or questions, or that agent-patient organization is universal, or that all languages have recursion) may be due to Proto-World
inheritance?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Martin<br>
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************<br>
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References:<br>
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<div>Cysouw, Michael. 2011. Understanding transition probabilities.
<i>Linguistic Typology</i> 15(2). 415–431.<br>
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<span title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Understanding%20transition%20probabilities&rft.jtitle=Linguistic%20Typology&rft.volume=15&rft.issue=2&rft.aufirst=Michael&rft.aulast=Cysouw&rft.au=Michael%20Cysouw&rft.date=2011&rft.pages=415%E2%80%93431&rft.spage=415&rft.epage=431"></span></div>
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<div>Maslova, Elena. 2000. A dynamic approach to the verification of distributional universals.
<i>Linguistic Typology</i> 4. 307 – 333.<br>
<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times"></span></p>
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<pre cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig </pre>
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