<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I agree with David that monogenesis of human language is unlikely for various reasons, but I think Martin’s<div class="">original question had to do with whether an argument had been presented in the linguistic literature with the</div><div class="">specific form of claiming that a universal exists because it was in the prototype of all languages. An argument</div><div class="">of this basic form could be made without assuming monogenesis if the hypothesis was that each episode of 'language</div><div class="">creation' started in similar ways.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ian<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 20, 2020, at 18:23, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Dear all,</p><p class="">I'm not sure whether Martin is looking for such cases in order to
cite them favourably or shoot them down, but either way ...<br class="">
</p><p class="">The kind of proposal that Martin mentions presupposes the
existence of a single Proto-World, aka monogenesis, of a similar
degree of complexity to contemporary human languages, the latter
condition being necessary in order for it to be possible to
meaningfully attribute a particular universal feature of
contemporary human languages to such a hypothetical
proto-language.</p><p class="">However, the monogenesis hypothesis is more consistent with the
saltational view of language evolution espoused primarily within
generative grammar, than it is with alternative views of language
evolution that would characterize it as the outcome of gradual
processes that began before the rise of modern Homo Sapiens.
Under the latter view, modern languages could be traced back in a
continuous path to various rudimentary "proto-languages" of the
kind more likely to have arisen independently in multiple times
and places.<br class="">
</p><p class="">Also, it's not clear to me how strict monogenesis can be
reconciled with recent genetic discoveries suggesting that there
was admixture between modern (linguistically-endowed) humans and
Denisovans as recently as 15,000 years ago in New Guinea. While
not a logical necessity, it's extremely likely that there was some
kind of inter-species communication going on, and such
communication could, potentially, have left traces still
observable in modern human languages.</p><p class="">David</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/01/2020 19:45, Haspelmath, Martin
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:8872becd-9a63-6920-e78d-d315135c1af5@shh.mpg.de" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
Dear all,<br class="">
<br class="">
Does anyone know a case where it has been proposed (or suggested)
concretely that an observed universal tendency (or absolute
universal) is due to inheritance from Proto-World?<br class="">
<br class="">
Cysouw (2011: 417) has suggested this as a possibility:<br class="">
<br class="">
<font size="-1" class="">"It is possible that there are still founder
effects available in the current distribution of the world’s
languages, i.e., that there are preferences in the current
world’s languages that go back to incidental events during the
spread of languages over the world (Maslova 2000)."</font><br class="">
<br class="">
But while this is logically possible, are there any concrete
suggestions with a global scope?<br class="">
Word order universals such as the Greenbergian correlations, or
phonological universals such as vowel dispersion cannot be due to
Proto-World (or some other founder effect), because the
universality lies in the implicational patterns, not in specific
structures that all languages share. Has anyone suggested that any
other universal properties (e.g. the fact that all languages can
express negation or questions, or that agent-patient organization
is universal, or that all languages have recursion) may be due to
Proto-World inheritance?<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks,<br class="">
Martin<br class="">
<br class="">
************<br class="">
<br class="">
References:<br class="">
<div class="csl-bib-body" style="line-height: 1.35; margin-left:
2em; text-indent:-2em;">
<div class="csl-entry">Cysouw, Michael. 2011. Understanding
transition probabilities.
<i class="">Linguistic Typology</i> 15(2). 415–431.<br class="">
</div>
<span class="Z3988" title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Understanding%20transition%20probabilities&rft.jtitle=Linguistic%20Typology&rft.volume=15&rft.issue=2&rft.aufirst=Michael&rft.aulast=Cysouw&rft.au=Michael%20Cysouw&rft.date=2011&rft.pages=415%E2%80%93431&rft.spage=415&rft.epage=431"></span></div>
<span style="font-size: 10.000000pt; font-family: 'Times'" class=""></span>
<div class="page" title="Page 3">
<div class="layoutArea">
<div class="column">Maslova, Elena. 2000. A dynamic approach
to the verification of distributional universals.
<i class="">Linguistic Typology</i> 4. 307 – 333.<br class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size: 10.000000pt; font-family:
'Times'" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig </pre>
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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